Find Ancestors

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone in this thread.

Thank you for your help with tracking down my family.

Regards

Brian

Welcome back JaneyCanuck

Oh, I only dropped in on a couple of threads last night that people commanded my presence in. ;) I am so driven nuts with work still that I'm not really here. You don't want me. You don't want to know how long it's been since I had a shower. I have masses of work to do over the weekend as well (it was due new year's eve, but hey, now it isn't taxed until the next year!) so it will be a few days before - I hope! - I can come back to visit your pain in the bum ancestors here. ;)

Happy belated new year!

Hello to all

Apologies for the long absence - I've been trying to track down May Doris Hancock.

I eventually found an entry of the death of a May Hancock in 1905 in the records and have been waiting on a death certificate to confirm that the entry was for ‘my’ May.
Indeed it was; May Doris Hancock died of enteritis in Islington Infirmary at 5 months.
May be over a century ago but it still seems sad.

So, now I want to find how William Shorten (Grandfather) came to be in London when the family came from Norfolk (according to family stories).

Regards

Brian

Do you have Willliam & Alice's marriage certificate? It will give you William's fathers name.

1881 Census, this family have children born Camberwell which is not too far from Lambeth.

Charles SHORTEN Head M Male 28 St Andrews, Middlesex, England Collar Maker (Shirt Maker)
Elizabeth SHORTEN Wife M Female 26 Camden Town, Middlesex, England Laundress
Elizabeth SHORTEN Daur Female 6 Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England Scholar
William SHORTEN Son Male 4 Camberwell, Surrey, England
George SHORTEN Son Male 2 Camberwell, Surrey, England
Alfred SHORTEN Son Male 1 m Camberwell, Surrey, England


Source Information:
Dwelling 6 Staple Inn Bdgs
Census Place London, Middlesex, England

or this family from Essex

Household:

Walter SHORTEN Head M Male 40 Bulmer, Essex, England Agricultural Labr
Rebecca SHORTEN Wife M Female 44 Gt Henny, Essex, England
James SHORTEN Son U Male 15 Middleton, Essex, England Agricultural Labr
Annie SHORTEN Daur U Female 14 Middleton, Essex, England Scholar
Ellen SHORTEN Daur U Female 13 Middleton, Essex, England Scholar
Emma SHORTEN Daur Female 8 Middleton, Essex, England Scholar
Edward SHORTEN Son Male 7 Middleton, Essex, England Scholar
Jane SHORTEN Daur Female 3 Middleton, Essex, England
William SHORTEN Son Male 1 Middleton, Essex, England

Hi Selena

Yes, from the certificate I know that Williams father was Walter Shorten, who was down on the certificate as a Farm labourer. He was deceased by the date of the wedding on 16/06/1917.

So Walter SHORTEN Head M Male 40 Bulmer, Essex, England Agricultural Labr looks good.

I’ll look for a birth certificate for him for around 1841, and a certificate for William for 1880, plus earlier census records for the whole family.

Thanks for your help.

Well ... that certainly explains May Doris, unfortunately. Yes, funny to feel a sense of loss when you find that someone you didn't know died a century ago, isn't it? I feel that way when I'm tracking tangential people, hoping to find descendants of a grandparent's first cousins, say, and find the boys dying in WWI, as too many did.

Keep the updates coming. ;)

Update – Thanks to Derick and Duncan I’ve managed to discover brothers and sisters for Walter Shorten, with descendants.
These two gents have managed to trace the family back three further generations – I’ll be updating my tree for weeks!

Also managed to solve the mystery of how the family seemed to be all in London when I also understood they came from Norfolk/Suffolk.

Walter and his siblings seem to be from Sudbury; because of boundary movements, Sudbury can be in either Suffolk or Essex.


I’m returning to my mothers side of the family now, beginning with my great grandmother Eliza Richardson, formerly Richardson (there's another mystery) born 1860.

I’m asking the experts – should I start another thread or carry on with this one?

Regards

Brian

Hi Brian

I have read this thread all the way though,what a great story almost like a book you can't put down.

I am not an expert but I think Janey would tell !! no !! never start a new thread .
You have the family all here,just keep it going on this thread.
Of course I could be wrong.

Good luck in your search.
Sue

Stick with us/this one Brian...
We may as well know all the dirt on your family..:))..

Give some decent details to start us off,and away we will go on the hunt...
viv

LOL!
For Susan and FannyByGaslight

The first thing I’m trying to solve is my Great grandmother Eliza Richardson born in 1860 and married to George Richardson, born 1858.

The thing is the birth certificate for my grandfather Charles Alfred Richardson, born 1882.

It is interesting that the certificate shows the mother as ‘Eliza Richardson formerly Richardson’

It could be she was born a Richardson – it is quite a common name – and by coincidence married a Richardson. Or was she previously married a brother of her husband.

Was she a spinster or a widow when she married? I don’t know if my great grandfather even had brothers, but I bet he did, it seems most families of that time had 5+ children.

They may have been cousins.

So do you have her marriage cert then??
If not ,you need it really.

For her fathers name and her marital status.

Where and when did it take place?

Birth certs of children with mothers married before normally say..
Formerly Richardson
Late blah di blah

Name: George Richardson<<carman
Age: Full Age
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Spouse Name: Eliza Richardson
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 17 May 1880
Parish: St Peter, Vauxhall
County: Middlesex
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: George Richardson<<<farrier or farmer?
Spouse Father Name: Alfred Goldin<<<painter

Witnesses.
George Richardson and W Montagu Clabau???

18 Goding ?street for both of them.

Spinster and bachelor.
Maybe Eliza was illegit but knew her fathers name??..Ha !The dirt starts arriving..;))

I am not so sure that it does say Goldin for her fathers surname,the writting is bad,but it is NOT Richardson.

But now you know where the Alfred came from for your grandfathers middle name.

Is this them in 1891?
Civil Parish:
Lambeth Municipal Borough:
Address:
11, Gloucester Street, Lambeth County:
London

RICHARDSON, George Head Married M 31 1860 Stoker
Clapham
RICHARDSON, Eliza Wife Married F 28 1863
Kingston
Surrey
RICHARDSON, George Son Single M 10 1881
Lambeth
RICHARDSON, Charles Son Single M 8 1883
Lambeth
RICHARDSON, Ernest Son Single M 6 1885
Lambeth
RICHARDSON, Leda Daughter Single F 0 (3M) 1891
Lambeth

On 1901 George and Eliza from the 1891 census posted say they were born Lambeth.

FBG

That's great thanks.

How did you get the information so quickly?
at 18:09 you said we need the marriage cert - at 18:13 you had all the details and at 18:36 parish records.
It would take me all day to find all that. What is the secret?

Ansestry subcription,the expensive one !
So make full use of it...

1881 census from Find my Past ,for George Richardson 1860 ish father,so it says Farrier on the marriage cert,not farmer...

And George senior says born Kingston,same as Eliza on 1891.
Cousins I think they may turn out to be,if we ever get to make the connection..

RICHERSON, George Head Married M 47 1834 Farrier
Kingston
RICHERSON, Caroline Wife Married F 45 1836
Chobham
Surrey
RICHERSON, Charles Son Single M 17 1864 (No Occ)
Norwood
RICHERSON, William Son Single M 14 1867
Norwood
RICHERSON, Emily Daughter Single F 10 1871
Norwood

Registration District:
Lambeth Sub District:
Lambeth Church Second Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Lambeth Municipal Borough:
Address:
15, Goding St, Lambeth County:
Surrey

I wonder?
Richardson on image..

1861
Address:
Cambridge Road, Kingston
RICHARDON, Eliza Wife Married F 60 1801 Tin Plate Workers Wife
Mitcham
Surrey
RICHARDON, Eliza Daughter Unmarried F 30 1831 Dressmaker
Mitcham
Surrey
RICHARDON, Emma Daughter Unmarried F 23 1838 Dressmaker
Kingston
Surrey
RICHARDON, James Son M 17 1844 Tin Plater Worker
Kingston
Surrey
RICHARDON, Alfred Grandson M 16 1845
Kingston
Surrey
>>>>>RICHARDON, Eliza E Granddaughter F 3 1858
Kingston
Surrey

Her birth..

Births Mar 1858
Richardson Eliza Emma Kingston 2a 180

And I can not find her in 1871 ...

Here she is as a servant for the Westgate family,and a small Richardson boarding there with her.

Address:
Westow Hill Tailor, Croydon
WESTGATE, Robert Head M 38 1833 London

RICHARDSON, Eliza E Servant F 13 1858 Surrey
RICHARDSON, James Boarder M 0 1871 Surrey<<7 months,born Guildford.


This Eliza is nowhere to be found on 1881,by me anyhow,so is she the one who married George Richardson??

RICHARDSON, George Head Married M 79 1782 Proprietor Of Houses
Isleham
Middlesex
RICHARDSON, James Visitor Married M 67 1794 Brazier & Tinman
Isleham
Middlesex

1861 for James who wasnt with wife Eliza,seems to be visiting.
A possible brother?


1851,same family as 1861 (Tin plate worker) but with George who became a Farrier in there too?

Address:
Canbury Alley, Kingston Upon Thames, Kingston

RICHARDSON, James Head Married M 54 1797 Tin Plate Worker
Fulham
Middlesex
RICHARDSON, Eliza Wife Married F 51 1800
Mitcham
Surrey
RICHARDSON, Eliza Daughter Unmarried F 20 1831 Domestic Servant
Mitcham
Surrey
RICHARDSON, George Son Unmarried M 18 1833 Cannons Assistant
Mitcham
Surrey
RICHARDSON, Emma Daughter Unmarried F 13 1838
Kingston
Surrey
RICHARDSON, Tryphena Daughter F 10 1841
Kingston
Surrey
RICHARDSON, James Son M 7 1844
Kingston
Surrey


Cousins are certainly looking more likely and Eliza being his illegitimate cousin...
Her mother being Eliza or Emma???

Any views from you lot out there looking in please?

FBG

WOW!!

It's going to take me a while to work through that lot - thanks!

The farrier makes sense, most generations of Richardsons has a farrier.

The current one lives in the west country.