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good idea julie

I feel quite positive! Either we're on the wrong track and need to go back to basics or it's the right track with some more untangling to do.

It may be possible to find living relatives of Florence who can fill in some gaps.

it might be worth trying to find out if anyone else is buried with Elizabeth in Royton Cemetery and whether there is a gravestone with an inscription.

Julie

going back to wedding cert&birth cert dates norman is the right one ,just do not understand cropper mmn,just checked bmd&he is the only one in the time span

hi julie,
i am more confused than i was at the begining,
gene comes back from holiday this week,so i will find out what cert's she has and hopefully thing's may start to make a bit of sense,(not holding my breath though.)
i thought things were going to well,what with owen&ann getting nearer to the tree &john's birth at the same place as their marriage.
only time will tell!!

Well...................how strange is that........2 people whom we believe to be closely connected die on the same day in the same hospital.

So have we got all the connections wrong including Norman being the wrong Norman as he is the main connection????

Elizabeth Jones nee Cropper had no husband with her in 1901 and 1911. Was Florence told he was away working, a journeyman? Why include journeyman as his occupation? Why not just say Electrical Engineer? Was John Edward Jones running two families?

So many questions.....still trying to get my head round it!

Julie

this puts the cat amongst the pidgeon's.
no john&elizabeth marriage.
no john&mary marriage,(that can be found.)
norman's mmn cropper,
unless some fibs have been told,will the truth ever come to light

hi ann
it would appear so,on death certs my john iron moulder,on elizabeth's wife of jej electrical engineer journey man

was Royton area

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1922
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
JONES Florence EDWARDS William H Royton, Longsight, St. Anne

poss. Florence (but not same family then)
Marriages Dec 1922 (>99%)
JONES Florence /William H Edwards Oldham 8d 1108

so am I right in interpreting that as Elizabeth Jones mother of Florence (married name Edwards) had no connection with your John Edward (other than they died on the same day in the same hospital!!)

on todays map Cardinal st and Croft head look to be about 2.5 miles from each other

google says Boundary Park Hospital, Rochdale Road now Royal Oldham Hospital started life as Oldham Union Workhouse

i think 449 rochdale rd,,
used to be part of the infirmary/poor house/workhouse hospital,it was calledwestwood park poor law institute from1913-1930,later it became boundary park hospital

well certs are here-oh dear,oh dear.
lets start with john,he died 15th may 1927,at 449 rochdale rd,he died of pneumonia&cariac failure,informant mary e jones widow of deceased,23 cardinal st oldham,death registered 16 may 1927.
now elizabeth she also died 15th may 1927,at 449 rochdale rd,she died of stomach cancer,informant florence edwardsof 10 croft head royton,elizabeth lived at the same address,registered 16th may 1927.
now for the bad bits,
john edward jones -iron plate moulder.
elizabeth wife of john edward jones electrical engineer journey man.

ithink or hope 449 rochdale rd may be the hospital i knew as boundry park or it may have been some kind of hospicei dont know.

so if they were not man &wife why no marriage to mary ?

they were certified bybthe same doctor!!!

just had a quick look at the site&have put north wales bmd on favorites i think i will be needing it,saw marriage&birth you posted,looks good,

hi jan
thanks for the web site &details are we getting closer,will look tomorrow at the site,if it is them ,john was right,he was born in wales as we know it now,but when he was born it was in cheshire ,gene gets back from holiday this week it will be good to find out exactly which certs she has got so i will wait till i speak to her.


just looked on page21 gene says she has enquired at various register offices in wales &wrexham is one of them?

on ancestry it is prob. this one no other names as page number not transcribed
Name: Owen Jones
Year of Registration: 1869
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Corwen
County: Denbighshire, Merionethshire
Volume: 11b
Page: 51[35]


yes here is Anne
Anne Davies
Year of Registration: 1869
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Corwen
County: Denbighshire, Merionethshire
Volume: 11b
Page: 515

Martyn might be worth you having a look at this site Ref is for ordering certs through them not GRO
JONES Owen sub district-Corwen, Civil Marriage Wrexham County Borough


http://www.wrexham.gov.uk/english/community/genealogy/MarriageIndexSearchResult.cfm?RequestTimeout=2000


Marriages Index Possible Spouses
Your Original Selection

Surname Forename Reference
JONES Owen CRWN/06/9
Possible Spouses

Surname Forename Reference
ARTHUR George CRWN/06/9
ARTHUR George CRWN/06/9
DAVIES Anne CRWN/06/9
ROBERTS Elizabeth CRWN/06/9


Also the birth index john edward 1876 wrexham is the same sub district

think its page 302

hi
i have been re-reading the thread on pg 19 on 1891 census it states ann was born in wrexham, long shot i know but on free bmd have found,
john edward jones
born wrexham mar 1876,
11b 3*2
it says transcriber could not be certain of the number.
also,
john edward davies,
born wrexham sept 1876,
11b 327,

if she was not married it could be a possability !!


also while looking at record for jonh e jones found another mar 1876 carnarvon?
11b 494