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Hi. I and my cousin are trying to find the information on Joseph Ryan (b) 1855 in Liverpool (my G/Grandfather), he Married a Hannah Smith on 26 Dec 1877 at St,Augustine's RC church in Liverpool, they had 6 Children, whom my Grandfather (J.J.Ryan) was one, and my cousins grandmother (Ursula) was another, we have found him on census's from 1861 age 6 through to 1901 age listed as 43,but we are sure this age is not correct, should be 46, now he is not on the 1911 census and Hannah is listed as a widower and the census is signed by my granddad JJ Ryan, now this where it gets tricky, the family story as passed down through the family is that he fell of a gangway boarding a ship (he was a dock labourer) and never found? we found a death for a Joseph Ryan of Toxteth Park, Liverpool in the 4th qtr of 1906 and was wondering if that was him? my cousin sent for the death certificate, but it was only based on a coroner's inquest and gave no next of kin,so a brick wall again, can anyone help with this please, oh and one more thing we found strange, we could not find any reports of it in any Liverpool area Papers, but it was in a few others from around England very strange, all the stories where just basic and the same in each paper except for age variations?
thank you
AL Etherington----------------Canada

Hello Al.
The Cert .you received what exactly does it say on it...?
Unusual have an inquest without a body....although some circumstances eg Colliery Deaths where the bodies are entombed a death cert is issued.... it is also unusual for the Liverpool Echo not to have posted a notice.....
Will have look around for you

https://boards.ancestry.co.uk/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/52844.2/mb.ashx

(is that the Marriage reference on above, what is Occupation of Joseph?)

Chris :)

(I am trying to find the parents of Hannah Smith, I have a copy of her marriage to Joseph Ryan who where married at St Augstines RC church on the 26 Dec 1877 in Liverpool, she was living at 64 Chisenhale Street at time of marriage age 19,her father is listed as John Smith, profession labourer.)


Liverpool, England, Catholic Marriages, 1754-1921 (Ancestry)

(also on above)


Address references, 1901, 19, Louis Street, Liverpool, Lancashire. 1911, 40, Paul Street, Liverpool.


Deaths Dec 1906 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------
Ryan Joseph 44 Toxteth Park 8b 120

(reference)

Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1988 (Ancestry)

(Burial 17th Oct. Ford Cemetery)


(too young on below)

03 October 1906 - Lancashire Evening Post - Preston, Lancashire,

FATAL FOOLHARDINESS. SAILORS’ HAZARDOUS METHOD OF BOARDING A VESSEL
Liverpool, two men were precipitated into the river and drowned before assistance could reach them. Their names are Joseph Ryan and Wright, both aged about 20, and employed shore-gang men. According to one account, they had arrived late for boarding ...”

Hi Eringobragh
I do not have the certificate, my cousin does, I will give him a call and ask, but he is a hard one to get hold off, so will get back to you when I know,,thanks for your input
AL

Hi Chris Ho
the Marriage date for Joseph Ryan is correct on the original I sent as I have a copy of it , and he was a dock Labourer at that time, although on different census's he was listed at various jobs from Horse shoe Smith to Lab in a corn mill as was one of his sons JJ RYan my granddad. and that article on the 2 men drowning age 20 my cousin found that and thought that it might be him and they had the wrong age in the papers. thanks for your input on this mystery

Hi Eringobragh
Just phoned my cousin and all it said in the report was" an accident while going aboard the ship on the gangway, slipped and fell in the dock, and he also said that they did find the bodies day's later, which i did not know about, hope this helps Thanks

AL----------------Canada

that death in 1906 is this one a baby

Deaths Dec 1906   (>99%)

Ryan
 Joseph
 0
 Liverpool
 8b
13

County
Lancashire
Parish
Liverpool
Ecclesiastical Parish
ST MATTHIAS
Registration District
Liverpool
Residence Note
Clement Street
Gender
Male
Age
36
Marital Status
Married
Occupation
Milk Labourer
Relationship to Head of Household
Head
Birth Year (Estimated)
1855
Birthplace
England
Page Number
8
Registration Number
RG12
Piece/Folio
2904/ 7
Household
Role
Gender
Age
Birthplace
Joseph Ryan
Head
M
36
England
Hannah Ryan
Wife
F
32
England
Mary C Ryan
Daughter
F
13
England
John J Ryan
Son
M
11
England
Margaret Ryan
Daughter
F
9
England

Hi Malyon
thanks Malyon but no him, the one we think might be him is v 8b p120 toxteth park
thanks

AL

that's not him he would be born in 1862

Deaths Dec 1906   (>99%)

Ryan
 Joseph
 44
 Toxteth Park
 8b
120

Hi Malyon
we do think it's him but not 100% sure, and the age is wrong, as we found out on the census's from 1861 to 1911. only 2 of them fell into the 1855 birth range, but all the other info on them was his families, as i said in my original email it is a bit of a mystery,again many thanks, we will get there yet

AL--------------Canada