Find Ancestors

I am trying to trace the ancestors of John Draper b1898. He married his first wife Daisy Robinson in 1919 and they had seven children. He lived in the Brighton and Hove area.

I know from the marriage certificate that he was a van driver. His father was William who was a labourer. I have been unable to find William and John in either 1901 or 1911 censuses in the Susex area. There may have been a tenuous London link as the birth of one of his children was registered in Fulham.

Any help would be appreciated.
Regards - Marnie Draper

Is this Daisy in 1939? There are 5 closed records.

Draper Household (3 People) 60 Wolseley Road,Portslade-By-Sea , Portslade-by-Sea U.D., Sussex, England

Print
First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Daisy Draper 08 Jun 1899 Female Unpaid Domestic Work Married 220 1
Brian Draper 27 May 1929 Male At School Single 220 6
Roy Draper 16 Jan 1930 (1932) Male At School Single 220 8

Is this John married to wife no 2? There is 1 closed record.

1939

Draper Household (3 People) 17 Powis Road , Brighton C.B., Sussex, England

First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
John Draper 07 Jun 1898 Male Unemployed Lorry Driver Married 414 1
Alice Draper 03 Jun 1908 Female Home Duties Married 414 2
Patricia Wheeler (Draper) 09 Jul 1938 Female Under School Age Single 414 3


The date of his birth matches the one on the death record you have found Malyon.

could this be john

Births Jun 1898   (>99%)

Draper
 John
 
 Bedford
 3b
353

these are all the june births for john

Births Jun 1898   (>99%)

Draper
 John
 
 Bedford
 3b
353
  
Draper
 John
 
 Ecclesall B.
 9c
442
  
Draper
 John Hodge
 
 Greenwich
 1d
1044
  
Draper
 John James
 
 Bolton
 8c
473

Welcome to the Community boards Marnie.



I will let Marnie know how to find the replies. :-)

Thank you Cynthia, Malyon and Aviegal for your help.

Malyon - This is the John that I am researching but I wasn't aware of the Bedford connection. I will try to follow that up.

Alviegal - Yes to both families in 1939. How have you found this information? I do not know what a 'closed record' is. How are you able to find information from 1939 when there was no census and no obvious birth, marriage or death event.

Thanks again. Any extra help always welcome.
Marnie

The 1939 Register is on findmypast. This will give you an idea of why it came about.


In December 1938 it was announced in the House of Commons that in the event of war, a National Register would be taken that listed the personal details of every civilian in Great Britain and Northern Ireland. This Register was to be a critical tool in coordinating the war effort at home. It would be used to issue identity cards, organise rationing and more.

On September 1st, 1939 Germany invaded Poland, putting the wheels in motion for Britain to declare war on the 3rd. On September 5th, the National Registration Act received royal assent and Registrar General Sir Sylvanus Vivian announced that National Registration Day would be September 29th.


Having issued forms to more than 41 million people, the enumerators were charged with the task of visiting every household in Great Britain and Northern Ireland to collect the names, addresses, martial statuses and other key details of every civilian in the country, issuing identity cards on the spot.

The identity cards issued were essential items from the point the Register was taken right up until 1952, when the legal requirement to carry them ceased. Until that point, every member of the civilian population had to be able to present their card upon request by an official (children’s cards were looked after by parents), or bring them to a police station within 48 hours. The reasons were numerous – it was essential to know who everyone was, of course, and to track their movements as they moved house, as well as to keep track of the population as babies were born and people passed away.

The 1939 Register, then, represents one of the most important documents in 20th century Britain. The information it contains not only helped toward the war effort, it was also used in the founding of the NHS.





This explains 'closed records.'


Individuals’ records remain closed for 100 years from their date of birth (100 year rule). Records remain closed for people born less than 100 years ago until proof of death is verified. As more records become open as a result of the 100 year rule, more records will become available to search and view online at Findmypast. Of the 41 million records, approximately 13 million (around 32%) will be closed at publication. The 1939 Register will be updated regularly.

So, for example, the 5 closed records mentioned on the first record for Daisy indicate that these people are still living. Brian and Roy have, presumably, died.

Patricia Draper who married a Mr Wheeler, has also died but her sibling? (the 1 closed record) is still living.



England & Wales marriages 1837-2008 Transcription

Learn more
Print transcription View image
First name(s) PATRICIA
Last name DRAPER
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1962
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ PATRICIA DRAPER married
JOHN C WHEELER
Spouse's last name WHEELER
District BRIGHTON



England & Wales deaths 1837-2007 Transcription
Print transcription
First name(s) PATRICIA
Last name WHEELER
Gender Female
Birth day 9
Birth month 7
Birth year 1938
Age -
Death quarter 1
Death year 1992
District BRIGHTON
Register number 192
County Sussex
Volume 18
Page 257

Thank yo so much for explaining closed records. Much of that information has backed up details that I already know.

Referring back to John Draper b1898, I think that the Bedford John is unlikely to be the correct one. I know that John's father was William (from his marriage certificate).

Thanks again. Will look in again tomorrow.

could this be john with father William

John Draper
England and Wales Census, 1901
birth:
1898
Hindley, Lancashire
residence:
31 March 1901
Hindley, Lancashire, England
father:
William Draper
mother:
Sarah J Draper
other:
Henry Draper, William Draper, Herbert Draper, Elizabeth Draper, Ellen Draper, Sarah J Draper

There are these 3 born in Lancs that may be worth considering. http://www.lan-opc.org.uk

Baptism: 19 Sep 1897 All Saints, Hindley, Lancashire, England
John Draper - [Child] of William Draper & Sarah Jane
Born: 30 May 1897
Abode: 157 Castle Hill
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: C.J.Buckmaster, Vicar
Register: Baptisms 1893 - 1901, Page 174, Entry 1386
Source: LDS Film 93748

Baptism: 5 Feb 1899 St Anne, Lancaster, Lancashire, England
John Draper - [Child] of William Draper & Isabella
Abode: Monmouth Street
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: Rbt. Park
Register: Baptisms 1892 - 1900, Page 70, Entry 556
Source: LDS Film 1526409

Baptism: 4 Feb 1900 St Thomas the Martyr, Upholland, Lancashire, England
John William Draper - [Child] of William Henry Draper & Ellen
Born: 6 Dec 1899
Abode: 25, Church Street
Occupation: Quarryman


1939 has him born 7 June 1898 so that rules out the first and last John.

Middle John's father was a labourer but there is quite a long period of time between birth and baptism. That doesn't rule him out though.

EDIT I think I have found middle John's birth 1899 1st quarter Lancaster which would also rule him out.



:-( :-(

could this be him

John Jack Draper
United Kingdom, World War I Service Records
Name
John Jack Draper
Event Type
Military Service
Event Year
1916
Residence Place
, Cambridgeshire, England
Age
19
Military Company/Regiment
Royal West Kent Regiment
Military Regiment
7544
Military Battalion
4th Battalion
Birth Year (Estimated)
1897
Birthplace
, Middlesex, England

Ah an address in Islington. King Edward Buildings, York Road. Mother Annie Draper nok.
He was a costermonger born St Pancras.


OH no, father's name is John!!! Drat, I thought we were getting somewhere :-(
He also was killed in 1916.

could it be that john was not born draper but took that name if he's mother married or lived with a William draper after he was born

Going by Family names included on his Service record this is his family. Father is actually Joseph William Draper but this John actually dies in WW1 in 1916.


1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
76, Upper Park Road, Hampstead, London, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Joseph Draper Head Married Male 49 1852 Painter House Hampstead, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Annie Draper Wife Married Female 48 1853 Laundress Hampstead, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Nelly Draper Daughter Single Female 15 1886 Housemaid (Domestic) Hampstead, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Adea Draper Daughter Single Female 10 1891 - Hampstead, Middlesex, England
Transcription
John Draper Son Single Male 5 1896 - Hampstead, Middlesex, England


DRAPER, J

Rank:
Private
Service No:
>> 7544<<
Date of Death:
28/09/1916
Regiment/Service:
The Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regiment)

that's so sad

Thank you both for your continued efforts on my behalf. I had assumed that message boards would only be useful if it put people within the same family in touch with each other. I hadn't expected input and advice from others who are interested enough to help.

As my Genes Reunited subscription runs out soon I am having a last ditch attempt to make some more progress. I now have a postal address for a relative who might be able to help with some basic starting points.