Genealogy Chat

See also:
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1262733

Another source of error to watch for is with lodgers/boarders. The head of household may have been unaware that their actual birthplace was not the same as the place they previously lived...

Jonesey - Re: "Type in their birth county/birthplace"

One should be aware that Ancestry transcribers refuse to recognize Northd as an abbreviation for Northunberland. E.g., my g gran in 1871:
Ann Younger 5 Northd, Chirton Daughter of Ralph & Margaret [rg10/5114/67/6]
She is not to be found born in Northumberland, nor county=Northd come to that.

Also, Westmorland is often spelled Westmoreland (but Westm* takes care of that)

many thanks for the suggestions Y

n

Reece,

Based upon my own experience, with great difficulty. (lol)

Fortunately for me my Joneses came from Suffolk originally but they then shot off in all directions (Except Wales thank goodness).

I do however have one welsh Jones "Problem" which as yet is unresolved. My brother in law asked me to help him trace his family history. His grandfather was born illegitimately in Anglesey in February 1881 but the illegitimacy fact was covered up by his grandfathers mother who claimed to be married to a Jones on the childs birth certificate. The mother subsequently did marry the father in 1883 but fate played a cruel hand and both the childs mother and father died in 1884.

According to the childs birth certificate the fathers name was John Jones and who was an engineer in 1881. According to the marriage certificate he was 30 years old in April 1883 indicating his birth in 1852/3. He was still an engineer at the time of his marriage and according to that certificate the grooms father was also called John Jones but no occupation was shown for him. The mother originally came from Warwickshire and the couple went there to live and subsequently die there.

The father was not living with the mother on the 1881 census although she was using his name, Jones and of course he was dead before the 1891 census. He drowned in the river Avon at Stratford 6 weeks after the death of his wife. The inquest report into his death gives no clue to his origin but as his body was identified by his late wifes brother I have assumed that he had no family in the area. I have therefore assumed, maybe incorrectly, that he was probably Welsh born.

So far all my attempts to trace his origin and ancestors have failed so if, whilst trying to find your Joneses you come accross someone who you think might be him kindly let me know.

Started the day by reading Jonesy's tips on this thread. Thank you for this.

Could I add just one more possibility, from my own experience?

A direct ancestor missing from the 1841 census - his wife and family are recorded with her father and a lodger. I searched for ages through all the surrounding villages and parishes with no luck. I have a lot of information about his life in NSW and family stories.

Finally, I wondered could he possibly be a convict? Yes, I found the trial at the Assizes in the local newspaper and now have the transportation details, Ticket of Freedom in NSW and am looking for the last few items to finish that part of his life story.

Here I uncovered a "secret", kept for 180 years by a large family. So do please consider looking further when you can't "find" your missing ancestor.

Thank you Jonesy for all your wonderful tips but how do I find my Jones's in Wales??????

Reece

Alan wrote

Not being an Ancestry user I can't compare it with FMP. What I like about FMP is:

a) credits last at least 90 days;
b) credits can also be used on 1911 (but you use more);
c) FMP has all censuses 1841-1901 (plus access to 1911) though coverage of some may be patchy;
d) when you find an individual and click for a transcript you get the household, not just the individual.

Hope that's helpful



a) ancestry is a subscription, although you can start with a 14 day FREE trial to see what is available ....

b) no limit on usage because you've run out of credits

c) unless you're going to be using 1911 a lot, I find it's better to use the 1911 site itself .... credits are good for 365 days, and they save ALL transcripts and images that you've looked at on site. fmp clears all at the end of each session, so you have to save to your own computer. That becomes a problem if you have looked at a transcript and/or image, decided it isn't yours, but then want to re-check at a later date.

d) ancestry has all censuses 1841-1901 (1881 is free to look at) .... plus many more records such as a lot of parish records ......... and are adding more and more all the time

e) when you click on an individual, you get first a box that shows the name of the individual, parents or spouse if any, date and place of birth and residence, so you can check quickly whether it is a possible ancestry .... if you then click on that you get the whole transcript ahowing the household, and then you can look at the image. The transcript has a line that you can click that allows you to easily see a listing of the neighbours.

PLUS you can submit changes and they accept them readily ...... at least I hae never had any turned down.



ancestry is my choice every time!!



sylvia

It is also worth remembering that there was at least one transcription before the census pages were completed as details were not entered directly onto the page in front of the householder, rather than onto slips which were transcribed later.

I have seen census pages in beautiful copperplate and highly legible writing which looks as though it has been done by by a young teenager, possibly the enumerator's daughter.

I've also come across examples where the details supplied to the enumerator have clearly come from a child of the family, again possibly because she or he was the only literate one in the family. One example had the householders parents listed as grandma and grandad!

Jill

Not being an Ancestry user I can't compare it with FMP. What I like about FMP is:

a) credits last at least 90 days;
b) credits can also be used on 1911 (but you use more);
c) FMP has all censuses 1841-1901 (plus access to 1911) though coverage of some may be patchy;
d) when you find an individual and click for a transcript you get the household, not just the individual.

Hope that's helpful

I've learned more in the last few weeks on here than the rest of my life!
Thanks Allan
cheers,
Jill

Christian names can be mis-spelt or mis-transcribed too. If the surname is a common one try narrowing your search by putting in the birthplace (assuming that's correct, of course).

I found Martha, mis-transcribed as Northa that way.

Nice one, Colin- I never thought of that! _but then, 'I know nussink'

Thanks Allan, but wouldn't ancestry be easier and what other advantage does FMP have - if any? While Santa is in spending mood I can have anything I want.....
what do you think?
Jill

Jill

... or you could ask Santa for Findmypast.

But if you can't wait till Christmas it's not too expensive if you just buy credits rather than a sub.

Another great leap for my kind, Jonesey,
One ancestor was deaf and dumb and her name was Dessey and the enumerator thought she wasn't saying it properly and wrote Jessie.

But GR won't let me put just the Christian name in so have I got to wait for Father Christmas to bring Ancestry?
Thanks again,
Jill

Sometimes the County where someone is born might be wrong. Boundary changes occur.

If you see a name with the correct age but the county does not match but is close by check out the image anyway to see if other family match.

Also ages can be wrong if the enumerator has checked of a name by putting a line through the age the transcriber can be out by many years.

Years are transcribed for months so if you are looking for an 8 month old and see a child 8 years old in the correct area check the image

Another common error is S and L and sometimes T. The old writing being difficult to read sometimes these are mistaken.

Eg: you are looking for John Large and he is transcribed as John Sarge or Targe.
It does not help that the transcribers are from other Countries so do not know areas. They are told to write what they see.

My 3xgt grandmother is transcribed as Carder and her name is Burden. Fortunately she had her grandchild with her and was living next door to her son so was found.

Great thread Jonesey

these tips always bear repeating!


My gt gt gt grandparents have been lost after 1851 for some years, but I've had a concentrated search for the last 2 nights. I finally found gt gt gt grandmother on the 1861 Census last night, as a widow (which explains why I couldn't find gt gt gt grandpa!) .................. transcribed as Bealey.

Her name was Healey/Haley ........... the image showed a very fancy H with curliques etc, and could easily have been mis-read by someone who was not used to copperplate handwriting.

How did I find her??

I entered Albert (youngest son), birth year +/- 5, mother Jane ......... and prepared myself to search pages and pages.

And there was Bealey as the first name!



Our ancestors moved a lot ............ a lot more than we sometimes think! ...... and it sometimes helps to imagine what a name said in a thick country accent might sound like to someone with another thick accent ........... eg, a Buckinghamshire accent in a Lancashire village, or a Scottish or Irish accent.


Also remember that many of our ancestors were in fact illiterate ....... so they often didn't know how to spell their own names, and most certainly couldn't read so they were unable to check what the enumerator had written down!



Finally, please do remember that the 1841 census has another little "trap" ............ the ages of adults over the age of 15 were rounded down to the nearest 5, so people appear to be up to 4 years younger than you expect. It also results in several members of a family appearing to be the same age ........ it will be very rare to find that they really are twins or triplets ...... or even quadruplets! This is when using birth year +/ 5 or even +/- 10 is useful.

BUT, just to complicate matters ..... some enumerators did not obey the instructions, and did not round down ages.



sylvia

George, make sure you check out Jonesey's thread on 1911 searching - on Tips Board. Recommend bookmarking it. Will nudge it for you.
Jan

Jonesey

I have been looking for one of my Ancestors on the 1911 census ( subscription site) for the past week using every combination of his surname i could think of,including the use of the variants.

After reading your tip of just using his christian name and i used his year of birth, i could not believe that i found him, albeit i had to trawl through 5 pages of entries, but what a result
His real surname was Tinley but it had been mistranscribed as TNLEY probably the only i had not done.

A great tip which i will not forget.

Many thanks George

Excellent advice as always Jonesey.
If using ancestry in particular less is definitely more, and beware of ticking "exact" boxes - even if spot-on it doesn't like it!
jan