Genealogy Chat

I have traced my husband's grandfather Thomas Gray born 1881/82 judging by marriage certificate which states he was 21. He was married 21 Dec 1902 to Martha Sarah Coventry in Bethnal Green. On the marriage cert the father is James Gray (deceased). I bought a birth cert for Thomas Gray 25 Feb 1882 (1c 267) father James - bricklayer, mother Mary Ann Gray formerly Crouch. Address 6 Albion Place, Bethnal Green but I'm not at all sure this is the right birth cert. I've looked up 1871 census and there are loads of James Grays as 'sons'. But I can't find James Gray as a family man in 1881 with any certaintity that he's my James. I've no idea when he died. Found a possible death cert James Gray Edmonton (8a 221) J/A/Sept 1892 but the area sounds wrong and I've purchased so many wrong certs overtime for different people, I'd like to be sure he's the right one.

'Deceased' fathers didn't always actually exist

What was Thomas's address when he married?

1911 for confirmation of birthplace

Person: GRAY, Thomas
Address: 12 Princes Court Bethnal Green

GRAY, Thomas Head Married
8 years M 29 1882 Carman Bethnal Green London VIEW
GRAY, Martha Wife Married F 28 1883 Machinist Blower Bethnal Green London VIEW
GRAY, Martha Daughter F 9 1902 Bethnal Green London VIEW
GRAY, Thomas Son M 5 1906 Bethnal Green London VIEW
GRAY, George Son M 1 1910 Bethnal Green London VIEW

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
1444 Reference:
RG14PN1444 RG78PN50 RD17 SD2 ED27 SN208

Perhaps someone with the right sub could look on Ancestry for a baptism.............

1881 census transcription details for: 8, Albion Place, Bethnal Green

RG number: RG11 Piece: 433 Folio: 109 Page: 11

Reg. District: Bethnal Green Sub District: Town
Parish: Bethnal Green Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 8, Albion Place, Bethnal Green County: Middlesex


GREY, James Head M 29 1852 Bricklayer Bethnal Green Middlesex
GREY, Mary Ann Wife F 23 1858 Bethnal Green Middlesex
GREY, James Son M 4 1877 Bethnal Green Middlesex
GREY, Thos Son M 1 1880 Bethnal Green Middlesex (did this one die ? )
CROUCH, Joseph George Head M 44 1837 Weaver Bethnal Green Middlesex
CROUCH, Mary Ann Wife F 42 1839 Bethnal Green Middlesex
CROUCH, Martha Daughter F 9 1872 Bethnal Green Middlesex
CROUCH, Frederick Son M 1 1880 Bethnal Green Middlesex


Maureen

Odd...........IN 1901, the family with the Crouch connection is headed by Samuel

Name: Thomas Gray
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Son
Father's name: Samuel Gray
Mother's name: Mary Gray
Gender: Male
Where born: Bethnal Green, London, England

Civil parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Bethnal Green North
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 239
Piece: 286
Folio: 113
Page Number: 38
Household Members: Name Age
Samuel Gray 41
Mary Gray 44
James Gray 24 CARMAN
Thomas Gray 19 CARMAN
Samuel Gray 14
Lydia Gray 11
John Gray 7
Arthur Crouch 26
Frederick Crouch 21

Address: 7, Princess Court

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Mary Ann Gray
Name: Mary Ann Gray (widow)
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Spouse Name: Samuel Gray
Spouse Age: 30
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 10 Dec 1888
Parish: St Thomas, Bethnal Green
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Joseph George Crouch
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Gray

Maureen

Nice one, Maureen.........

First marriage?

Marriages Dec 1874 (>99%)
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Crouch Mary Ann Bethnal Green 1c 749 <<<<<<<
Ebbs Joseph Isaac Bethnal Green 1c 749
Gray James Bethnal Green 1c 749 <<<<<
Kirby Emma Louisa Bethnal Green 1c 749

Births Dec 1879 (>99%)
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Gray Thomas Bethnal Green 1c 308


Deaths Sep 1881 (>99%)
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GRAY Thomas 1 Bethnal Green 1c 181

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Births Jun 1882 (>99%)
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Gray Thomas Bethnal Green 1c 267

Deaths Dec 1887 (>99%)
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Gray James 35 Bethnal Green 1c 162

Did she marry her brother in law ?

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Mary Ann Crouch
Name: Mary Ann Crouch
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Spouse Name: James Gray
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 12 Oct 1874
Parish: St Thomas, Bethnal Green
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Joseph Crouch
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Gray Occ: Umbrella maker ?

1861 census transcription details for: 6, Simpsons Place West Bird Cage Walk, Bethnal Green, London

RG number: RG09 Piece: 252 Folio: 131 Page: 17


Reg. District: Bethnal Green Sub District: 1 Hackney Road
Parish: Bethnal Green Enum. District: 7
Ecclesiastical District: St Peters City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 6, Simpsons Place West Bird Cage Walk, Bethnal Green, London
County: London, Middlesex

REEVES, John Head Married M 65 1796 Chelsea Pensioner
Westminster
Middlesex
REEVES, Sarah Wife Married F 60 1801
St Lukes
Middlesex
REEVES, Charles Son M 36 1825 Baker
St Lukes
Middlesex
GRAY, Thomas Stepson Married M 41 1820 Umbrella Frame Maker
St Lukes
Middlesex
GRAY, Rosa Daughter Married F 38 1823
St Lukes
Middlesex
GRAY, James Grandson M 9 1852 Scholar
Shoreditch
Middlesex
GRAY, Sarah Granddaughter F 7 1854 Scholar
Shoreditch
Middlesex
GRAY, Thomas Grandson M 5 1856
Bethnal Green
Middlesex
GRAY, Samuel Grandson M 1 1860
Bethnal Green
Middlesex


Maureen

Well , I think it's definitely the right family.

1911 census transcription details for: 13 Princes Court Bethnal Green
RG14PN1444 RG78PN50 RD17 SD2 ED27 SN207


Reg. District: Bethnal Green Sub District: Bethnal Green South West
Parish: Bethnal Green Enum. District: 27
Address: 13 Princes Court Bethnal Green
County: London


GRAY, Samuel Head Widower M 50 1861 Dock Labourer Bethnal Green
GRAY, Samuel Son Single M 24 1887 Carman Bethnal Green London
GRAY, John Son Single M 18 1893 Vanguard Bethnal Green London
CROUCH, Arthur Brother In Law Single M 38 1873 Dock Labourer Bethnal Green London
CROUCH, Frederick Brother In Law Single M 32 1879 Railway Trucker Bethnal Green London
GRAY, Thomas Nephew M 6 1905 Bethnal Green
O CONNOR, Annie Visitor F 14 1897 Kingston Surrey


Maureen

Had an update from Mary who gave me permission to post her PM :


Your info re: Reeves - this is odd because you list James Gray (grandson) and a Thomas (stepson) as an umbrella frame maker. I bought a birth cert for a Samuel born 26/6/1859, 6 Simpson Place West, father Thomas Gray - umbrella frame maker but the mother is down as Louisa Gray formerly Peachey. I have assumed this is wrong as I have gone along with mother Mary Ann Gray formerly Crouch. No doubt I will get it sorted eventually. But thanks again, it's given me something to think about.


.......

Anyone want to take a look ?

Maureen

Name: Thomas Gray
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1882
Baptism Date: 12 Mar 1882
Father's name: James Gray
Mother's name: Mary Ann Gray
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bethnal Green St James the Great
Borough: Tower Hamlets

Birth date Feb 23 (Could be 25, but looks more like 23 to me) father a labourer. Address 29 Grover? (hard to read) St

Mary Ann (Crouch) married James Gray born c1852 , who died in 1887.........then Samuel Gray born c1860 (grandsons on 1861 census) Their father was Thomas born c1820

I think you are confusing the generations...................

Please check carefully the info provided

If you have any further feedback, please use the 'add your reply' box......below. Do not click on a member's name.

My maternal family the Walkers and Juliers lived at 10 Princess Court my grandmother and mother were born at no 10
Ruth Hosking

Ruth

Can't see how your info connects with the request on here, but, bearing in mind that the thread is over 4 years old, I think you can safely assume Mary won't see your message.

If you wish to try to convey it to her, click on her name