Genealogy Chat

mgnv - US 1890, not 1891. I knew that. Honest :-D

Thanks for pointing out the other Galveston mgnv - I slipped into the trap of only recognising somewhere I'd been!

DetEcTive - Re: "If the passenger list is correct, then there is a good chance the 1891 census is amongst those lost/destroyed. The US don't have a national database of birth so we can't search for her on those."

It's actually the 1890 US census - you're right, it's mostly destroyed. There's nothing left of IN and only bits of 5 counties in TX, none near Galveston.

You're right re there being no US national register of BMDs - it's just like the UK.
In fact, most federations of former British colonies (incl USA, Canada, Oz) followed the UK division of responsibilities, so BMDs aren't really a matter for the national government, but are handled at a lower level - countries in the UK, states in the US/Oz, provinces in Canada.

MC - there's also a Galveston in Indiana, abt 100km N of Indianapolis and 25km SSE of Logansport (but still in Cass Co).

Record set:1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
County:Lancashire
Parish:ST HELENS
Street:90 MORTON BANK ROAD
Ecclesiastical District:ST PETERS PARR
House Number:
Town:ST HELENS
Municipal Ward:PARR
Parliamentary Borough:ST HELENS
Registration District:PRESCOT
Sub District:ST HELENS
Enumeration District:38
Archive Reference:RG13 Piece Number:3525 Folio:72 Page:34

PETER O BRIEN 1865 36 IRELAND Head M CHEMICAL LABORER
MARGARET O BRIEN 1865 36 IRELAND Wife M
CATHERINE O BRIEN 1886 15 HOWDEN, Northumberland Daur
MARY O BRIEN 1889 12 AMERICA USA BS Daur
MARGARET O BRIEN 1891 10 AMERICA USA BS Daur
ELIZABETH O BRIEN 1893 8 ST HELENS, Lancs Daur
PETER O BRIEN 1895 6 ST HELENS, Lancs Son
[Howdon is a neighbourhood in Wallsend, just W of Chirton. I think it's in Tynemouth RD]


1911 England Census
Civil parish: St Helens
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 10 Marsh St
Registration district: Prescot
Registration District Number: 456
Sub-registration district: St Helens [5]
ED, institution, or vessel: 50
Piece: 22804

Peter Obrien 46 Mayo, Ireland Now Head (Head) M Chamick Labour (chemical)
Margerat Obrien 46 Ireland Wife M
Mary Obrien 22 America Daughter S (Domestic) (at home)
Elizabeth Obrien 18 St Helen, Lancs England Daughter S Servant
Peter Obrien 16 St Helen, Lancs England Son S Out Of Work (bottle Works)
[marr 26 y - no kids died (but doesn't state how many born)
Tenancy listed under previous tenant, Michael Rush]

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1910
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
RUSH Michael O'BRIEN Margaret Prescot Register Office or Registrar Attended Prescot R/84/92
[Until 1980s, RCs couldn't keep official marr registers, and the registrar would have to attend RC marrs so the couple could sign his register, mixed in with all his rego office marrs - don't know if this affected your mob]

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1910
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
O'BRIAN Catherine HURST James Prescot Register Office or Registrar Attended Prescot R/85/14

Maybe
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1914
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
OBRIAN Mary CATON Leonard Prescot Register Office or Registrar Attended Prescot R/94/162


There are 2 possible births for Kate
Births Sep 1884 (>99%)
O'Brien Catherine Burke Morpeth 10b 360
Births Sep 1886 (>99%)
O'Brien Catherine Newcastle T. 10b 101

Births Jun 1893 (>99%)
O'Brien Elizabeth Prescot 8b 796

Births Jun 1895 (>99%)
O'Brien Peter Prescot 8b 734

1911 England Census
Civil parish: St Helens
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 16 Manor St, Peasley Cross, St Helens, Lancs
Registration district: Prescot
Registration District Number: 456
Sub-registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 39
Piece: 22793

James Hurst 28 St Helens, Lancashire, England Head M Coal Miner (hewer)
Catherine Hurst 24 Newcastle, Nottsh [Nort'd] Wife M
James Hurst 11/12 St Helens, Lancashire, England Son
Joseph McLoughlin 29 St Helens, Lancashire, England Boarder M Coal Miner (hewers Filler)
Lucy McLoughlin 23 St Helens, Lancashire, England Boarder M
Joseph McLoughlin 1 Week St Helens, Lancashire, England Boarder
[Each marr 1 y with 1 live birth]

Is this the correct 1911 for her?

RUSH, Mickiel Head Marrid M 26 1885 Miner Hewer Armagh Tyrone Ireland Residents
RUSH, Margaret Wife F 21 1890 America Galveston Residents
RUSH, James Brother M 21 1890 Labourer Underground Armagh Tyrone Residents

RG number: RG14 Piece: 22805
Reference: RG14PN22805 RG78PN1333 RD456 SD5 ED51 SN192
Registration District: Prescot
Sub District: St Helens
Enumeration District: 51
Parish: St Helens

Address: 59 Recr St St Helens County: Lancashire

(Married 1 year, only child born has died)

If it's right then it must be Galveston, Texas.

Hi Kevin where were they when they came back to England? Does the birthplaces for the girls just say "USA" ?

Hi
Yes the info is from my tree records but the date of the family arriving in america are guess work .
Peter O'Brien married Margaret Bourke in 1884 wallsend northumberland.
their first child Kate born 1885. they left for america between 1885 and 1888.
they returned to england in 1891. their 2nd child mary born 1888 in america again state unknown. I cannot find exact date of their arrival in the U.S.or the birth place of Mary b.1888. or margaret b.1890.
thankyou for your help

Kevin's tree has her spouse as

Michael Rush
Birth 1883 in County Mayo Ireland
Death 1949 in St Helens Lancashire

First child with any dates
margaret Rush
Birth 1910 in St Helens Lancashire England
Death 1910 in ST Helens lancashie England

I was assuming that Peter and Margaret married before emigrating to the US. There are a number of entries for Margaret on US passenger lists, but none travelling with Peter, or give her as a 'married woman'.

So - where did Peter and Margaret marry? In Ireland, or should we be looking for Margaret Bourke travelling without Peter O'Brien?

Kevin, if you can tell us anything more recent about your grandmother perhaps we can work back from the known facts.

For example, who did she marry (where and when)? Where and when did she die?

If the passenger list is correct, then there is a good chance the 1891 census is amongst those lost/destroyed. The US don't have a national database of birth so we can't search for her on those.

????

1900
Margaret O Brien
[Margaret Obrien]
Age: 9
Birth Date: Apr 1891
Birthplace: Pennsylvania
Home in 1900: Mechlings, Westmoreland, Pennsylvania
[Westmoreland
Peter O'Brien 37
Ellen O Brien 27
Margaret O Brien 9
Daniel O Brien 6
William O Brien 4
Thomas O Brien 1

Peter and Ellen have been married 2 years, so this was Peter's 2nd marriage.
Peter born in England of Irish parents, ditto Ellen. Both imigrated 1891.

From a tree - the only record attached doesn't make sense.(Oops! Its probably your tree, sorry :-( )

Margaret O'Brien
Birth 1889 in America
Parents Peter O'Brien 1863 –
Margaret Bourke 1863 –

Only record attached to Margaret 1889 is
Margaret Obrian
Birth Date: abt 1865
Age: 26
Port of Departure: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States
Arrival Date: 20 Jul 1891
Port of Arrival: Queenstown, Ireland
Ports of Voyage: Liverpool
Ship Name: Lord Clive

If anything it belongs to the mother travelling with Kate age 5, Mary 3 and Margaret 10m.
The same tree has Margaret 1899 as marrying Michael Rush 1883 Count Mayo, but no records attached

can anyone help find my grandmother Margaret O 'Brien birth in amercia in 1891 state unknown
her parents Peter and margaret O'Brien (Irish emigrants) landed between 1885-1890 also unable to find date. if anyone could help it would be great.