Genealogy Chat

It would be interesting to no how much older the older brother was?

As has been said it is possible that Mr Downing snr is the father but i find it strange that Much older brother was brought into the conversation, If he was not relevant to the child's birth, (Just my opinion) people often did and still do give clues when they no more than they are prepared to say/state as a fact ? (skeletons in cupboards) Plenty of people found out in later life that their older sister was in fact their mother so why not the same for a man.

I too have a birth cert from an illegitimate birth from 1848 where the informant was the next door neighbour who was present at the birth

Roy

I tend to agree with Roy in this case - if the "much older brother" was old enough to be the child's father then that seems a good enough reason for the Downing name to be given as a middle name, and for the child's grandparents to agree to b ring up the child.

Kath. x

Another thought,

Its not compulsary that a birth mother
/father register a birth,,,,,it can be done by anyone responsible who may have been present at the birth or knew the child had been born to that said mother,,,,,,as long as the facts given were true and a letter of proof shown.


Also the family tale may not be as accurate as it seems.

Although I agree with Roy that it would be unusual for a man and his wife to raise his illegitimate child from another relationship, it is possible.
I have such a case on my tree and the father is not named on the child's birth certificate, but did raise the child with his later wife and the child is logged in census with his surname, although her birth and marriage were in her mother's surname.

Gwyn

Have you considered that his much older brother could be the father?

It could be that he got the lady pregnant and whilst he was away his parents agreed with Miss Willis that they would bring the child up, that could also account for the middle Downing on registration,

It would be strange for Mr Downing snr and wife to accept the child as their own If Mr Downing snr was the dad but not have Mr Downing snr named as the father on the birth cert and for Mr Downing jnr to be named on the birth cert he would have needed to be present at registration

Roy

Edit, for the sentence (Apparently his much older brother came home from a long trip abroad to find his mother and father with a young baby.) to be mentioned it would appear to have some relevant would it not?

Hi,
If the orginal birth certificate doesnt have ---Adopted writtien in the right hand margin then its wasnt a formal adoption,as even original birth certificates from 1920 where an adoption too place in late 1926 and thoughout 1927 show if adopted,

Could a relative have been the birth mother?or they knew the birth mother or her family,,,strange things did happen.

,,,,,adoption was possibly on the cards but never got to make it formal?then all that would happen the Willis was dropped.

Can I also add, thank you all for your help, it is much appreciated. Without the kind of help I have received I am sure I would have not got so far as I have with my own tree.

She has a full version of the original birth certificate and that has no father's name just his mothers and his adoptive parents surname as a middle name. I can find no record on the GRO index of a Downing-Willis.

If he retained his birth surname of Willis then he wasnt formally adopted by the Downings or the Willis surname would not be recorded on the copy obtained for pension purposes.

Court aproved legal adoptions were in full force by 1927,,before that it was mainly by private arrangement.

Your friend would be better to ge a full copy of the birth certificate to get full details, short versions dont carry all facts.

Under Willis is his birth entry but nothing recorded for a child under the name of Downing

What does the 1925 GRO index show under the name show under Downing and what under Willis?

The certificate he obtained in 1961 was probably written out with information supplied by himself. Many illegitimate people are given the surname of their real father as a middle name and some decide to make that name part of their surname by adding the hyphen.

You can actually call yourself anything you like as long as you are not trying to defraud.

Kath. x

I am helping a friend find out about her deceased husband and have changed names for her privacy. Her husband was adopted but never told her but his adoptive mother threw it into a conversation once. After his death she obtained a copy of his birth certificate. He was born in early 1925 and the entry for his first name was Peter James Downing and his surname was Willis. His mother's name was Helen Willis., father's name was blank. The mother was living in Hitchin but the child was born at an address in a nearby town. Mother's job was barmaid.

Peter James Downing Willis grew up with a family by the name of Downing. Apparently his much older brother came home from a long trip abroad to find his mother and father with a young baby. I suspect that the father had an affair with the barmaid and took on the baby. Hence also the adoptive families surname being a middle name of the child.

My question is that my friend's husband had a shortened version of his birth certificate dated 1961 which he got for pension purposes and on it his first name is given as Peter and his surname as Downing-Willis. How could he get a middle name attached to his surname, my friend is sure he would not have gone through Deed Poll.

Any help appreciated.