Genealogy Chat

hi barbara
thank you so much for that fantastic info.please let me explain how i know that Lizzie orton brown owned the house that my grandfather was born in.
got granddads birth cert several yrs ago.we all knew in the family that granddad was
illegitimate and we also knew his mother was a domestic/servant.grandad was born in 1915 at 17 beaconsfield street toxteth park liverpool.
a few yrs ago i paid a researcher from the liverpool records office to research the house which i thought was a nursing home for expectant mothers or unmarried mothers,he wrote back and told me it was a private house owned by Lizzie orton brown,no mention of a hubby and funnily enough he couldnt find any proof of my grandfathers birth that day but stangely a baby boy had been born at num 16 that same day to a married couple by the name of Ismay. lizzie orton browns occupation in 1915 is nurse but the researcher didnt give her age and didnt say if she was married.
granddad was not adopted until sometime after 6m of age,and ive always wondered how his unmarried mother kept him,i wonder if Lizzie took my g grandmother and her child in and let my grandmother keep her baby while working as a servant in her house,maybe granddad was not born in beaconsfield street but in the nursing home that lizzie worked in in 1911.
very interesting
thank you for your hard work.x

In above 1911 it says

William is a Male Nurse --Nursing Home
And wife Lily is --assistant in business

So it could be they were running the Nursing home --butI am unsure if it was from the address they lived at


Barbara x

1911 census ?? ( occupation right but age 5 years out !!)

1911 England Census 1911 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Brown
Age in 1911: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Female

Birth Place: Tickhill, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Toxteth Park
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 30 Garmoyle Rd Wavertree Liverpool

Marital Status: Spinster (Single (Female))

Occupation: Sick Nurse

Registration district: Toxteth Park
Registration District Number: 454
Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park East
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Piece: 22285

Household Members: Name Age
William Henry Oates 45
Lily Oates 32
Gladys Oates 9
William Leslie Oates 6
Elizabeth Whalley 46
>>>>Elizabeth Brown 42 ---boarder--Sick Nurse --born Tickhill, Yorkshire



Source Citation: Class: RG14; Piece: 22285; ; .

Death ?


Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1988 Record for Elizabeth Orton BrownLiverpool, Lancashire, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1988

Name: Elizabeth Orton Brown

Age: 73

Burial Date: 4 Apr 1938

Parish: Yew Tree Cemetery


( Could someone please check the Address on image----it looks like 4 Rutloen Road)



Deaths Jun 1938
Brown Elizabeth O 73 Liverpool S. 8b 157

Hi Suzanne

I wonder if this is her birth index ?? (Doncaster is the Reg. District for Tickhill )

Births Jun 1864

BROWN Elizabeth Orton Doncaster 9c 515

=====================================

Maybe her parents marriage

Marriages Dec 1851

>>>>>>>>>Brown George Doncaster 22 143

CROSSLEY Samuel Doncaster 22 143
DOE Elizabeth Doncaster 22 143
Gleadall Elizabeth Doncaster 22 143
Hill Ann Doncaster 22 143
Jaques Thomas Doncaster 22 143

>>>>>>>>>Orton Mary Doncaster 22 143

Yates John Doncaster 22 143

======================================================

1871 census

1871 England Census 1871 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Brown
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: George Brown
Mother's Name: Mary Brown
Gender: Female
Where born: Tickhill, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Tickhill
Town: Tickhill
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Doncaster
Sub-registration district: Tickhill
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 26
Piece: 4714
Folio: 6
Page Number: 5

Household Members: Name Age
George Brown 43 ----Ag Lab--Edwinstowe, Nottinghamshire
Mary Brown 41 ---wife--Tickhill
John Brown 9 --son--Tickhill
Elizabeth Brown 7 --Daut--Tickhill

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 4714; Folio: 6; Page: 5; GSU roll: 847245.

=====================================================


I think the birth index Andrew found for June 1884 --was for the Daughter of John --Elizabeth Orton Brown's Brother


========================================================


A MAYBE for 1881 census ---notice occupation??

1881 England Census 1881 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Orton
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Tickhill, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: North Dalton
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: The Street Westwood House
Education:

Employment status: View image

>>>>>>Occupation: Nurse Domestic

Registration district: Driffield
Sub-registration district: Bainton
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4795
Folio: 54
Page Number: 20
Household Members: Name Age
Thos. Binnington 27
Alice E. Binnington 24
Wm. Binnington 2
Thos. Hy. Binnington
Sarah B. Brown 21
>>>>Elizabeth Orton 18


Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 4795; Folio: 54; Page: 20; GSU roll: 1342157.


Still not finding a marriage , Death or 1911 Census though for this lady :-S So not sure if it helps at all

Barbara x

how did you get thaat last one? looked through find my past last night and couldnt get her in yorkshire at all,but i think i found her in the 1911 census in liverpool(but after reading your post,maybe im wrong,
will look into this one,
thank you.x

Ancestry has 3 non-US hits:

View Record Name Parent or Spouse Names Birth Year Birthplace Relation Residence View Image
1881 England Census
View Record Lizzie O. Brown Phoebe abt 1878 Staffordshire, England Daughter Coventry Holy Trinity, Warwickshire
1891 England Census
View Record Lizzie O M Brown abt 1865 city, Yorkshire, England relation city, Yorkshire
1901 England Census
View Record Lizzie O Brown abt 1884 Yorkshire, England relation city, Yorkshire


This is the one you want:

1891 England Census
County:Yorkshire (East Riding)
Parish:HOLY TRINITY AND ST MARY
Street:9 WEST PARADE
City:KINGSTON UPON HULL
Town:KINGSTON UPON HULL
Ecclesiastical District:ST STEPHEN
Municipal Ward:BOTANIC
Parliamentary Borough:KINGSTON UPON HULL WEST
Registration District:HULL
Sub District:MYTON
Enumeration District:5
Archive Reference:RG12 Piece Number:3936 Folio:88 Page:33

HENRY DENNISS 1819 72 GRIMSBY, Lincs HEAD M MANAGER N E R Co
ELIZABETH DENNISS 1816 75 SUTTON, Yorks WIFE M
EMILY H DENNISS 1856 35 HULL, Yorks DAUGHTER S
LIZZIE O M BROWN 1865 26 TICKHILL, Yorks SERVANT S MEDICAL & SURGICAL NURSE
EMMA WILKINSON 1868 23 HOWDEN, Yorks SERVANT S DOMESTIC SERVANT
FANNY WILKINSON 1871 20 HOWDEN, Yorks SERVANT S DOMESTIC SERVANT

found a LIzzie O Brown on Ancestry but im not a member anymore so i couldnt look for her occupation.
:-)

thank you very much andrew,, ive been looking in liverpool for her,maybe she didnt come to liverpool until later,will look at the 1911 census for doncaster.

thank you.x

This might be her birth, but can't see her on 1911 census

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Jun 1884 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brown Lizzie Orton Doncaster 9c 705


Andy

hi sylvia
thanks for your input,
grandad was adopted at approx 6m old(we think) his adopted parents were not married at the time of his birth.i wonder how his unmarried mother kept him ,she would not have been able to work,i really wanted to find some connection between my grandmother and the owner of the house and thought that she may have been there in 1911 and i could have got further info from the census.
ive looked for Lizzie Orton Brown on find my past for 1911 and found nothing.


sue,x
mgnv.
thanks for that info,will look as soon as i can.x

Suzanne


that house may have been a small type of maternity home.

They were very common pre-NHS days .......... which means before 1947.


and that seems even more possible if the owner was a nurse.


I remember watching an episode of that Yorkshire vet series many years ago .............. and his wife had her baby in just such a place. It was the midwife's own home, but she had 1 bedroom that she used for birthing mothers.


If your grandfather was adopted, then it is possible that his mother lived there from before the birth, and possibly until he was adopted. OR maybe the woman who owned the house fostered him.




sylvia

You need the 1911 England Census Summary Books
Try a look up on Ancestry for Last Name=durrance, Registration District=toxteth
and click on the image - it's (temporarily) free right now.

[Lancashire > Toxteth Park > Toxteth Park Central > District 23 > 12]

You'll probly have to do a free registration first, but wait and see.

having no joy with this address,i know in 1915 when my granddad was born .the owner of the house was a lizzie orton brown occupation nurse.
maybe my g grandmother was a domestic at the house and when she became pregnant and was allowed to stay on and have her baby?
granddad was not adopted until he was about 6m old, how did his mother provide for him?ive tried everything to find the answer,lots of help in years past from genes members,but its all come to nothing.x

right thats good choccy,it didnt say that on fmp,just no 17 not listed,
got grandads birth cert so i know where he was born.

thank you Andrew for your input. didnt think it would not be listed because it was empty,x

thank you both of you.

On the enumerator's list it is uninhabited in 1911

It could have been empty on census day. There are other numbers not listed.

Andy

could someone help me please?
just looked on fmp for 17 beaconsfield street toxteth park,
found 1 -95 beaconsfield street but no 17???
granddad was born there in 1915.
cant imagine why it wouldnt be on the list.

thank you, :-)