Genealogy Chat

Hi, i have 4 cerificates (2 marriage and 2 army records) i was sure they were the same man but the signatures do differ quite a bit, has anyone else ever experience this before or is it just wishful thinking on my part? thankyou

Hi Jennifer, it's difficult without seeing them but if there are significant differences then I would be suspicious.

People's signatures can vary a bit but they should still be identifiable. Be brutally honest when you're looking at them!

yes its very easy to get carried away...will get some other peoples opinions i think...thankyou.

I don't think the signatures on copies of certificates are always those of the actual people. Sometimes the certificate data sent to the registrar was copied by the vicar. The certificate certifies that the information is correct not that it is an exact copy of the original.

I would say that the signature I used when I was 16 bears no resemblance to that which I used when I got married at 24.

And my signature now bears very little resemblance to that one

Also when I was working I had 2 signatures - one which I used most of the time but a totally different one when signing my staffs' overtime dockets, that way if there was ever a query I would know that the unreadable squiggle was mine!

As a left-handed person I find my handwriting is appalling to say the least and I think this goes some way to explaining my varying signatures over the years as I have tried to improve my penmanship - sadly to little or no improvement. But I have been typing since I was 14 some 44 years now, and find that this is a far easier solution, not only can others read what I am writing but so can I.......
:-D

Thankyou very interesting...i did say to my hubby that the whole marrriage certificate looks like it has been writtten and signed by the same person as the writting is exactly the same?...maybe all those years ago it was different to how it would be now with a copy...

Having read a bit more, it seems that the registrars copied out the information to send to the GRO, so the certificates issued by the GRO are not true copies of the original.

I believe the parish registers are the places where the real signatures are held.

A marriage register is signed at the church or rego office.

If the church was authorized to keep a register (C of E 1837-date, most nonconformists 1898-date, RCs 1980ish-date), then the authorized register keeper would make a copy at the end of the quarter to send to the local office and the GRO - the old regos containing original signatures are deposited in some archive - usually the county records office.

If the church wasn't authorized to keep a register, then the registrar would have to attend, and the couple would sign his register, along with all the rego office marr couples. At the end of the quarter, the local registrar would make a copy of his rego (along with copies of his B & D regos) and send all the copies to the GRO who would index and bind these copies.

The GRO now sends out images of its copies - in the predigital days, they would make a copy for any one who wanted one by hand or maybe even typed. Most local offices don't have any digitizing capability (Birmingham does), so they make copies as needed.

So it's unlikely your m.certs have original signatures unless they were extra copies signed at the same time as the rego entry, or you've gotten a copy from some archive - some are online.

NB Doesn't apply to Scotland - GROS digitized the local regos rather than the central copy, and that's what you get thru SP.

You will get genuine signature images at the foot of the 1911 census.

To add to this ......................


My signature now is very different than it was 15 years ago, or from when I was in my 20s.



As an added note ..............

............... we went to Australia in 1975 on an extended visit. We carried a lot of Traveller's Cheques with us as we visited England, Leningrad, and South Africa on the way, and it was not as easy to transfer money as it is today.


We went to open a bank account as soon as we arrived in OZ ....................... I counter-signed each cheque, and handed them over to the teller.


He compared the new signature with the "old" one, from just 8 weeks before, on each and every cheque .............. even checked them against the one in my passport

.................... and then handed all the cheques back to me and said ................


"The signature today has to match the original signature" . :-0


I had to countersign every cheque, making sure the signature matched.



There were about 30 cheques to be done



and, boy, did I ever feel like a fraudster!!!!

:-D :-D :-D :-D





sylvia

oh my goodness thats incredible!!...thankyou i will take a look at the 1911 census and see what i think of that signature...

Even the marriage cert given to the couple on their wedding day does not have the original signature...........it is a 'Certified Copy of an Entry of Marriage'

My marriage certificate has original signatures on it - done with the Vicar's fountain pen. I can remember signing both the certificate and the Register immediately after the ceremony and we were given the certificate to take with us.

Reggie - yes, it's a 'Certified Copy of an Entry of Marriage', but it's up to the vicar who makes copies of which bits - he just has to certify they match his original register. I have heard instances where the couple and the witnesses have signed blank forms, and the vicar's filled in the rest of the copy(s) he certifies.

When we got married we only signed the parish register. The certificate we were given on the day was copied out by the vicar so our signatures are not on it.

Kath. x