Genealogy Chat

I have my Grandad's WW1 medals with his name, company and number on the back on one and around the rim on the other. One is the 1914/15 Star which I think I am right in saying was given to soldiers who saw service in France and Flanders from 23.11.1915 and 12.12.1915 and thse who saw operation theatre from August 1915 to December 1915.

On his medal card it says that he went to France on 31st August 1915 and also that he was in the East Surrey Rifles no. 1507 and the Devon Rifles 79704

Both the medals I have are for the East Surrey Rifles.

Does anyone know, or know where I can find out, which parts of France the regiments were in and also was it common for one regiment to merge with a completely new one. Or did he leave one and join another?

I have googled East Surrey Rifles but the info is very confusing with companies being given other names and merging all over the place

Thanks

Linda

I think you need to try and find the war diaries for the units in question, which if availble are on the National archives site.

here is the link

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/war-diaries.asp

Now i wish i could tell you more about searching these archives, but i can never seem to fathom it out, perhaps you may have more luck than i do.Someone else might come along and give more ifo on this.

In reponse to your other question.

"also was it common for one regiment to merge with a completely new one. Or did he leave one and join another?"

I think you will find that he went from one unit to another.

I hope this helps, i know not too helpful.

George

One of the best sites for the nitty gritty of ww1 is the Long Long Trail.
http://www.1914-1918.net/

My grandfather, who was a regular soldier and was in France 12 Aug 1914 used to say that there were bold soldiers and old soldiers, but no old bold soldiers. Yr rellie survived by a mix of chance, strength courage and the survival instincts of Brer Fox.

Nearly all of the fighting (for want of a better word) involving the BEF took place between Amiens and the Belgian border. Regiments of men sent out in good order were regularly decimated by the thousand and so lost any shape or coherence. The survivors would be given a week or two off ( or a "Blighty" trip home if they were wounded enough ) before being posted to another regiment or corps.

The Service Battalions - Kitchener's Army

The East Surrey Regiment raised seven Service battalions, of which the 7th, 8th, 9th (the Gallants), 12th and 13th served in France. All these non-Regular battalions had fine fighting records, and in every way maintained the traditions of the Regiment, enhancing its prestige by their gallantry and endurance. All took part in the Battles of the Somme in 1916. Most were present at the principal battles of 1917, such as Arras, the Scarpe and the Third Battle of Ypres, and in 1918 at St Quentin, Albert and Cambrai. They saw as much fighting as the Regular battalions and showed themselves as worthy members of the Regiment whose name they bore. One particular incident will always be remembered. On the first day of the Battle of the Somme, 1 July 1916, B Company of the 8th Battalion went into the attack dribbling two footballs which the Company Commander, Captain Wilfred Nevill, had bought for his platoons to kick across No Man's Land. Captain Nevill and many of his men were killed during the advance, but the 8th Surreys were one of the few battalions to reach and hold their objective on this day. The ‘Football Attack’ caught the imagination of the country, and illustrations of it are shown in the Regimental Museum, which also contains one of the footballs used. On that day, the 8th Battalion won two DSOs, two MCs, two DCMs and nine MMs, but 147 officers and men were killed and 279 wounded.

(The Army still has one of the footballs.)

good luck

"a contemptible little army" German Kaiser attrib.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DGa9xHGB0c

HAVE YOU TRIED TO FIND HIS MILITARY RECORDS ON ANCESTRY OR FIND MY PAST

Thank you George and Rollo,

I'll have a look at the sites you suggested

Linda

1914-15 Star was awarded for service in France or Flanders (Belgium) between 23 November 1914 and 31 December 1915, or for service in any theater between 5 August 1914 and 31 December 1915

If a soldier got wounded and was sent back to some UK hospital, he would be transferred to say #22 Base Hospital in Derby. Upon discharge from hospital, he'ld again be transferred to some depot battalion where he'ld train to get match-fit. When a depot battalion received a call for replacements, no attention was paid to his previous unit (unlike, e.g., the CEF or ANZACs) and he'ld be transferred to whatever unit issued the call.

Earlier in the war, a British division had 3 brigades, each of 4 battalions (a bn or regt like 1st E Surreys had a nominal strength of abt 1200 men).
By 5/1/1918, manpower was getting short, and brigades were cut down to 3 bns in France, which usually meant one bn was redistributed amongst the others. This happened to some extent in the ANZACs, but not the CEF, so in 1918, the Canadians and ANZACs were the most powerful Empire divisions on the Western front.

That's very interesting mgnv, thanks very much. On the remarks part of his medal card it says Class Z 22.2.1919

Any ideas where Grandad's war records would be , if it still exists?

Linda

Hi Dizzi,

I found his medal card and that's all

Linda

There are two other classes of records, both of which Ancestry has - you'll need a sub to see the actual records, but you can check if any exist for your guy for free, although the answer might not be definitive.
The first is a soldier's actual service records - these are the most useful, although the British records are a bit skimpy. Unfortunately, 70% of the records were destroyed in a fire, and even for the 30% surviving, often you just get the central 50% of the page as the margins are too charred to read.
The other set is the pension records - however, most soldiers weren't eligible for any pension, so they won't appear there.

Most soldiers were demobbed within a couple of years of the war's ending. I think, but don't know, that for soldiers who continued on in the army their service records were stored separately and escaped the fire - I don't know where these records are.

Thanks a lot for all the info

Linda