Genealogy Chat

Hi everyone,

I'm in the UK and have been trying for years to find out anything about what happened to my Great Grandfather, his second wife and their baby daughter once they travelled to Australia in 1911. I know they landed at Freemantle and there is evidence they settled in Perth, but after that I loose track of them. I know they separated and a letter from my Grandmother claims the wife went to China (presumably taking the baby with her), although I have no proof of this.

Does anyone know of any online sites where I can search for them please? There seems to be someone with the same name as my Great Grandfather who died in 1926 in Perth, but I can't find any other evidence to support this. I'd desperately love to find out more about what happened to them, and if there are any descendants of the daughter still around.

Any help on places to look would be very much appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

Gerry

Hi Gerry - there are some Australian experts on here who have access to all sorts of records and can advise you.

There is always Ancestry Worldwide (paid subscription but you could do 14 day free trial).

Two useful free sites are Trove (newspapers, etc) http://trove.nla.gov.au

and Australian National Archives http://www.naa.gov.au

Why not give us some details of the people you're looking for and we'll see if we can find anything?

One of the best sites that I have come across for links to Australian genealogical websites:

http://www.ballaratgenealogy.org.au

Thank you both for your input. I didn't put any details on here as I didn't think it was allowed, hence me trying to keep it 'general'.

Since you have asked (which I am very grateful for):

Frederick Waters born Chatham, Kent, England 21.05.1858
First marriage to Maria Crosswell 24.12.1883 Tunbridge, Kent.
Daughter Alice Daisy Waters born 1889 (my Grandmother) & Son Frederick Waters born 1891. (I have info on these)
Second marriage to Emma Hogben (nee Ralph) 14.03.1909 Faversham, Kent
Daughter Marjory Ruth Waters 03.11.1907 Reigate, Kent

Frederick, Emma & Marjory emigrated on 02.02.1912 on the ship OTRANTO as 3rd class passengers, landing at Fremantle, Perth, Australia on 5th March 1912.
Emma aparently left Frederick and married again and moved to China as per letter from Alice Daisy Waters to the War office. (Not sure if this is true or not as so far no evidence to support it).

Eager to find where they lived, when they separated (there was evidence in a letter from Frederick to my Nan, Alice Daisy Waters, that Emma sent the police after Frederick, although nothing to say why.

Possible death for Frederick 1926 Perth Australia.
Nothing at all on Emma or Marjory. Makes me wonder if Marjory ever married and if she had any descendants.

Any help at all would be very much appreciated. I have full world access to Ancestry, but am not that good at knowing where or how to look. I think I remember being directed to the Australian National Archives before, and I seem to remember that was where this possible death for Frederick was found.

I will certainly take a look through the links you have given so far - thank you for that.
:-)

Hi .....I notice a Marjorie (MarjorIE) Ruth Waters married a Wilfred Edward THOMAS 1934 in Perth.
Wilfred Edward THOMAS died 2002 age 93yrs at Mindarie (northern suburb of Perth). (Can't see any death for 'Marjorie/Marjory/Margery' Thomas).

Possible deaths for Frederick Waters...1930 Northam 1931 E Coolgardie.

The 'West Aus State Library' (on-line) has an 'Ask a LIbrarian' service ...they will help check/trace electoral rolls ... c1912/15+ for Frederick ...plus from 1930-1934 for Marjorie Ruth Waters. (then as Marjorie Ruth (& Wilfred Edward) THOMAS)

They will also help with newspaper death notice/s of Wilfred Edward THOMAS (2002)...which hopefully will reveal family names.

Valerie (WAus)

Wow Valerie...you are a marvel! I'm really hoping that this is the same Marjory. Having just double checked her birth certificate, it is definately spelt Marjory. However I guess it's possible either she may have changed it or someone somewhere along the line may have spelt it differently.

I shall certainly have a look further into what you have found, and really do appreciate the time and trouble you have taken with this, wether it turns out to be a positive connection or not. It's certainly much more than I've had to go on for several years now - thank you so much!

Many thanks and kind regards.

Gerry

Hi Gerry,
Picking up on Valerie's info, I have followed this couple on Electoral Rolls.
Wilfred Edward Thomas was a sheet metal worker.
He and Marjorie Ruth are together on all Ers up until 1949.
At this time, they were living at: 69 Jersey Street, Jilimont, Curtin.
( nb any offspring would not be eligible to vote at 1949 and woud not appear on rolls)

After 1949, Marjorie Ruth vanishes from the household, and at 1954 and1958 Thomas is still at the same address but two other people named Thomas have materiaised.
Joyce May Thomas and Robert George Thomas.
It is impossible to determine if they were children from the marriage, but Joyce May is in his household until 1972

What is odd that from 1954 onwards ( not before), there is a Marjory Ruth Thomas living elsewhere in WA
Her address is 71 Collie Street, Forrest
The other person is this household is named: Harold Charles Thomas ( can't tell relationship)
Marjorie Ruth vanishes completely after 1980 ( still at Collie Street) but by this time the household consists of
Marjory Ruth Thomas
Harold Charles Thomas
Julianne Grace Thomas
Kenneth Desmond Thomas
Brian Thomas
Stephen Thomas

If Harold Charles was her son, then I guess that Julianne was his wife and the others are their children?
Hope this is a help rather than a hindrance!
Anne

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980
about Marjorie Ruth Thomas Name: Marjorie Ruth Thomas
Gender: Female
Electoral Year: 1949
State: Western Australia
District: Forrest
Subdistrict: Collie

Ohh the plot thickens! Thank you so much for all the time and effort you have put into this. My mind is whirring around with it all. I'm still wondering if this really is my Marjory (I really do hope it is, despite the different spelling of her name (maybe she didn't like it or changed it for some other reason, or something like that. I think what I need to do now is to try and locate some living relatives of this Thomas family, and see if any of them have anything on Marjorie/ry's father. Ohhh...fingers crossed! I'll try Ancestry first as that's what I have access to, and see where I go from there.

Is all this info from records in the public domain on line? I'd so love to see it myself. Not that I don't believe you. I just can't believe it myself that there may be even a hint of a chance.

I'm *SO* grateful....THANK YOU !!!!

:-D

Try a search at http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/researchandgenealogy/search.aspx

Is this your Wilfred Edward Thomas ?

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/42110347?searchTerm="wilfred edward thomas"&searchLimits=

It certainly sounds like the family mentioned above. It's only the spelling of 'Marjory' that makes me cautious about laying claim to them. I need to try and get a copy of the marriage certificate. Not sure where I can get that from, or if it will, like Uk marriage certificates, give me details of Marjory's father.

It certainly would be such a major step forward and give me more avenues to try if it was..

Thank you all so very much!

Hi Gerry ........ 'Find My Past' shows that a Frederick Waters, Emma Waters & Marjorie Waters ALL travelled together 1912 for Fremantle. (her name is spelt with 'ie' ....and the marriage record (to Wilfred Edward Thomas) shows her as 'Marjorie Ruth'.

Valerie

Thank you Valerie. Yes I'd seen the emigration details about them sailing to Freemantle, Perth in 1912, which I believe I found from Ancestry. I do also remember getting confused in the past over the spelling of Marjory's name, as I couldn't remember which way it was spelt. The birth certificate clearly shows 'Marjory', but I am 100% positve that the Frederick, Emma and 'Marjorie' who sailed in 1912 on the Otranto, were my relatives, as I have letters from them to my Grandmother confirming all this. I don't know if there were ever any other letters, later on. I would assume there must be. The last one I have is from Frederick mentioning that his wife had left him (no mention of Marjory/ie) and that she'd sent the police after him. I'm guessing any letters after that were not kept or were thrown away at a later date. Presumably my Nan would have kept in touch with her father. I don't know if he did just stay in Australia, or if he decided to come back to England or what happened to him. I'm just trying to explore all avenues to see if there may be any stories passed down through the family about him or his second wife Emma or their daughter.

It's late here now, but hopefully over the weekend, I can get to have a look at some of the sites mentioned above. I currently am on cloud 9 that we may at last have moved forward on this. Thank you ALL !!!

Gerry