Genealogy Chat

This is for someone who asked me for help but dont have ancestry anymore or know where to go on this one. Complicated so I will and be clear.
What I am trying to find out is Ebenezer Vickers the same person as Robert Vickers. Here goes with the information the person already has so people dont waste there time looking up information we already have.
Ebenezer Vickers b 1838 Lambeth. parents thomas rock Vickers b abt 1805 middlesex, mother Ann Morris abt 1805 wales. Cant be found on the 1841 census.
Ebenezer marries Mary Ann amelia Tomkins in 1859. Not sure where but the marriage banns have him as ebenezer.
Can not find in 1851 ensus. In 1861 he is living with mary and son Joseph henry vickers again not sure where as the info hasnt been passed on to me.

Mary had a illigitimate son thomas G vickers who in the 1861 census is living with her parents Thomas and amelia tomkins at 2 Chapel st Lambeth.

On thomas G marriage cert it has his fathers name down as Robert vickers (deceased) this was 1880.
In 1881 mary ann Vickers was living as Amelia Moss wife of James moss and daughter Louisa in camberwell, 1891 in deptford.
In 1897 she dies and in the margin of her death cert it says "correction" Ann amealia vickers widow of Ebenezer vetified by her son joseph Henry.

So after all this information the points are there is no trace of ebenezer at all apart from the 1861 census. Is Ebenezer and robert the same person. Can anyone find him anywhere.
Help would be very much appreciated and if anyone would like to rewrite this clearer then please do so.

Anne

Well, here is the marriage:

Marriages Mar 1859 (>99%)
Tomkins Mary Ann Amelia Poplar 1c 906
Vickers Ebenezer Poplar 1c 906

I'm a bit confused to be honest. Is it possible to work backwards rather than forwards? I assume your ancestor is Thomas G. Vickers.

When was Thomas born?

Jan

Just for ref:

1861 England Census
Name: Thomas G Vickers
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Grandson
Father's Name: George J Tomkins
Gender: Male
Where born: Poplar, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: Kensington St Mark
County/Island: Surrey

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Kennington Second

Thomas A Tomkins 51
Amelia Tomkins 48
George J Tomkins 29
Thomas G Vickers 2

Banns:

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Ebenezer Vickers
Spouse Name: Mary Ann Amelia Tomkins
Record Type: Banns
Event Date: 13 Mar 1859
Parish: Poplar All Saints
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Register

No record in this collection for the marriage. There is no information for the father on the banns.

OK!

Births Mar 1859 (>99%)
TOMKINS Thomas George Vickers Poplar 1c 652

1841 England Census
Name: Ebenezer Vickers
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Gender: Male
Where born: Surrey, England

Civil parish: St Mary
Hundred: Brixton (Eastern Division)
County/Island: Surrey

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Kennington Second

Thos Vickers 36
Thos Vickers 12
John Vickers 8
Joseph Vickers 6
Ebenezer Vickers 4
Elizabeth Vickers 2 Mo
Ann Vickers 37

Is this the correct 1880 marriage?

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Thomas Vickers, milk carrier. Lived 16 Moat Place.
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Age: 21
Spouse Name: Sarah Bird, lived 98 Stockwell Road
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 18 May 1880
Parish: Brixton St John the Evangelist
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: Robert Vickers (deceased) shoemaker
Spouse Father Name: Francis Bird - Farrier
Register Type: Parish Register

Neither had been married before.

Witnesses: John Bird and Rachel Bird.

Hello Jan,
This isnt for me but yes thomas G Vickers is the firm connection in this.
On his marriage cert it says his father is Robert Vickers but my friend seems to think it is ebenezer.
I see you posted Thomas G Vickers birth so was he registered as Tomkins.

Anne

I might be inclined to get Thomas' birth cert.

Here's 16 Moat Place in 1881. Are those Tomkins the relatives?

FARNHAM, Henry Head Married M 30 1851 Brewer Hereford, Herefordshire
FARNHAM, Emma Wife Married F 28 1853 Peckham, Surrey
FARNHAM, Henrietta Daughter Single F 2 1879 Lambeth, Surrey
>> TOMKINS, John Boarder Widower M 70 1811 Painter Stockwell, Surrey
>> TOMPKINS, Joseph Henry Boarder Married M 18 1863 Lather (Plasterer) Stockwell, Surrey
SMITH, George Boarder Head Married M 30 1851 Decorator Stockwell, Surrey
SMITH, Henrietta Wife Married F 30 1851 Stockwell, Surrey
SMITH, Henrietta Daughter Single F 5 1876 Scholar Westminster, Middlesex
SMITH, Kate Louisa Daughter Single F 3 1878 Brixton, Surrey
SMITH, Edith Mary Daughter Single F 0 1881 Stockwell, Surrey

RG number: RG11 Piece: 619 Folio: 110 Page: 5
Sub District: Brixton

Address: 16, Moat Place, Lambeth County: London, Surrey

Hello Marie,

Yes that is the correct marriage for Thomas Vickers

Anne

On the marriage cert he has Robert as a shoemaker. In 1861, I think Ebenezer is a boot ... something??

If so my guess would be that Robert is just an error on Thomas' part.

Jan

I dont know if the Tompkins in the 1881 census are related. A possibility as Mary ann amelia Vickers nee Tompkins named her son Joseph Henry Vickers as well.

You would think with a name like ebenezer he would be easily found but she has done alot of work on this one and still cant come up with him.

For ref.....1861 census

Name: Ebenezer Vickers
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Anne A Vickers
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: Kensington St Mark
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address: 2 East Place

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Kennington Second
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 153
Piece: 361
Folio: 133
Page Number: 25
Household Members:
Name Age
Ebenezer Vickers 23 occ Bootcloser
Mary Anne A Vickers 24
Joseph H Vickers 2 Months
George Clark 17 apprentice Bootcloser

1851 census?

Name: Ebenezer Vickers
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Vickers
Mother's Name: Ann Vickers
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Surrey, England

Civil parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: Stockwell St Michael
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Kennington Second
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 41
Piece: 1574
Folio: 452
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Vickers 46
Ann Vickers 46
John Vickers 17
Joseph Vickers 15
Ebenezer Vickers 13
Mary Ann Vickers 7
Emma Vickers 5
Flora Vickers 3

and

1841 census

Name: Ebenezer Vickers
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Gender: Male
Where born: Surrey, England

Civil parish: St Mary
Hundred: Brixton (Eastern Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

View image

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Kennington Second
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1056
Book: 1
Folio: 10
Page Number: 14
Household Members:
Name Age
Thos Vickers 36
Thos Vickers 12
John Vickers 8
Joseph Vickers 6
Ebenezer Vickers 4
Elizabeth Vickers 2 Mo
Ann Vickers 37

Thankyou Londenbelle,
At least we know of the siblings now so may be able to find him through them.

We know he died before his sons wedding in 1880 as it states on his marriage cert,

Anne

Hello all,
I would like to copy and paste the replys so I can send via email to my friend. I have highlighted everything and while it is still highlighted clicked on copy, moved to a word doc and clicked paste but all that comes up are the headings from each message.
Am I doing something wrong.

Many thanks
Anne