Genealogy Chat

Can any keen geneologist tell me why an ancester would say he was born Croy Invernes on the 1861 1871 and 1881 census, then say he was born in Kintail Ross and Cromerty on the 1891, 1901 and 1911 census?? Croy is nearer to Nairn and Inverness whereas Kintail is in Ross and Cromerty (two totaly different places)

:-S confused

Hi there.
I suppose the first question to ask is are you sure it is the same man? In 1881 for example there are 2 John Macrae's born Kintail Ross around 1838.
Jan

I assume this is your man? I am putting it for folks to see:

1871 Scotland Census
Name: John Mcrae
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Elsie Mcrae
Gender: Male
Where born: Croy, Inverness
Registration number: 142
Registration district: St Andrews Lhanbryd
Civil parish: St Andrews Lhanbryd
County: Moray
Address: Sheriffston Cottage
Occupation: Ploughman
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 28
Line: 12
Roll: CSSCT1871_26
Household Members:
Name Age
John Mcrae 34
Elsie Mcrae 29
John Mcrae 10
Elsie Mcrae 8
Murdo Mcrae 7
Mary Mcrae 4
Donald Mcrae 2
William Mcrae 6 Mo

This is the above family 1891?? I see what you mean! Seems unlikely his wife married another John Macrae doesn't it!:

1891 Scotland Census
Name: John MacRae
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Elspet MacRae
Gender: Male
Where born: Kintail, Ross Shire
Registration number: 133
Registration district: Dyke
Civil parish: Dyke
County: Moray
Address: Dalvey Lodge
Occupation: Farm Servant
ED: 4
Household schedule number: 39
Line: 8
Roll: CSSCT1891_37
Household Members:
Name Age
John MacRae 55
Elspet MacRae 49
Maggie MacRae 13
George MacRae 13
Edward MacRae 10

To be fair Reggie, it is me not the poster who has put the above.
I suspect the Elspet couple are the correct ones though, as this looks like them in 1861 - in all cases Elspet is born Rothes Elginshire which helps:

1861 Scotland Census
Name: John Mcrae
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Elspet Mcrae
Gender: Male
Where born: Croy, Invernessshire
Registration number: 141
Registration district: Rothes
Civil parish: Rothes
County: Moray
Address: Old St Lane
Occupation: Ag Lab

John Mcrae 23
Elspet Mcrae 19
John Mcrae 9 Mo

I have found that it is not uncommon for someone's birth place to be recorded as a different place on different census records and there could be many different reasons for this:

Poor education often meant that an individual was not aware of what was being recorded about them by the enumerator.

Lack of accurate knowledge. Often people did not know exactly where they were born. If for example their parents had moved location when the child was still quite young the child may have believed that they had been born in the new location.

The Poor Law. To avoid being repatriated to the place of their birth should hardship befall them people would deliberately give false information about their place of origin.

It might also have been simply a temporary lapse of memory which appears to have aflicted one of my ancestors when aged 45. In the 1891 census his birthplace is recorded as Twickenham, Middlesex when in reality he had been born in Sudbury, Suffolk which was what was recorded as his birthplace on every other census (1851~1911) that he was recorded on. He had been taken by his parents from Suffolk to Middlesex c1849 when they moved there.

Perhaps John Mcrae believed that he had been born in Croy but then later discovered that he had actually been born in Kintail.

Do you have all this?


Reference No.:
NM119400
Surname:
MCRAE
Forename(s):
JOHN
Maiden Name:

Occupation:
CARTER & PLOUGHMAN & CLEANSING CONTRACTOR
Date of Birth:
c. 1838
Place of Birth:

Father's Name:
DONALD MCRAE
Mother's Name:
MARY MCDONALD
Biography:


Marriage Details
Spouse's Name:
ELSPETH "ELSIE" FRASER
Date of Marriage:
27 OCT 1860
Place of Marriage:
GREEN STREET ROTHES
Married by:

Marriage Narrative:
PARENTS OF JOHN & ELSPET FRASER & MURDOCH & MARY & DONALD & WILLIAM & MARION & GEORGE & MAGGIE & EDWARD

Death Details
Date of Death:
26 FEB 1919
Age:
81
Headstone Ref:
Fc1013 . Fc - Cluny Hill Cemetery, Forres
Place of Death:
INVERNESS
Parish Register:

Death Narrative:


Newspaper Articles
Newspaper

Description

Date

Page/Column
FG Forres gazette
golden wedding
02/11/1910

3./4


My ancestors also came from Dyke. (1891 census)

Reference No.:
NM058606
Surname:
MCRAE
Forename(s):
ELSPETH "ELSIE"
Maiden Name:
FRASER
Occupation:

Date of Birth:
31 AUG 1841
Place of Birth:
ROTHES
Father's Name:
GEORGE FRASER MASON( See NM040795)
Mother's Name:
ELSPETH MCPHERSON( See NM040813)
Biography:


Marriage Details
Spouse's Name:
JOHN MCRAE CARTER
Date of Marriage:
27 OCT 1860
Place of Marriage:
GREEN STREET ROTHES
Married by:

Marriage Narrative:
PARENTS OF JOHN & ELSPET FRASER & MURDOCH & MARY & DONALD & WILLIAM & MARION & GEORGE & MAGGIE & EDWARD

Death Details
Date of Death:
21 DEC 1912
Age:
71
Headstone Ref:
Fc1013
Place of Death:
11 MOSSET TERRACE FORRES

This may be his parents marriage??? It is a BIG maybe.

groom's name: Donald Macrae
bride's name: Mary Macdonald
marriage date: 20 Oct 1818
marriage place: Glenshiel,Ross And Cromarty,Scotland
indexing project (batch) number: M11067-2
system origin: Scotland-ODM
source film number: 990583

Hello, yes!! this is the same family, its just soo frustrating that I can't trace a birth for John 1838 to Donald and Mary, although there are lots of Donald Macrae's and Mary's around the same area...John lists his father as "shepherd" on his marriage details, yet the only Donald I can see who looks like the same Donald is listed as "boat carpenter" ? I have a death for Donald in 1875 "boat carpenter" and a death for his wife mary Mcrae nee Macdonald "boat carpenters wife" I have another death for a Mary Macrae nee Macdonald in Nairn listing her husband as John Mcrae "shepherd. (John could have been misconstrued as Don since they were a gaelic speaking family) .But she was in a poorhouse in Nairn and since her son John was living in the nearby town I would have thought he might have registered her death, so I'm not sure this is even the same Mary Mcrae nee Macdonald...John married Elsie (Elspeth) Fraser in 1860 in Rothes and had a son John born out of wedlock in 1860, so I'm confident we have the same John and Elspeth right up to their deaths..I just cant understand why John is not listed with his parents in 1841 and 1851, I have a photo of John Macrae at his wife Elspeths grave which belonged to a brother Christopher Macrae born c1831 who has died in Clunes Australia, but theredoesnt seem to be any sign of his on the 1841 census where he would have been 10 yrs old!! So I now know there was abrother Christopher!!

Confused or just not very good at it :-S

I see you are familier with the "Moray Heritage Centre"

;-)

I did see this marriage for Donald and Mary in Oct 1818, but I did notice that Marys father was called Farquahr, which isnt the name on her death.. :-S

Have you considered this one? No John though!

1841 Scotland Census
Name: Donald MacRae
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Gender: Male
Where born: Ross and Cromarty, Scotland

Civil parish: Glenshiel
County: Ross and Cromarty
Address: Morvich
Occupation: Fisher

Donald MacRae 40
Mary MacRae 40
Kenneth MacRae 16
Anne MacRae 12
Christopher MacRae 7

There was a son Kenneth born c1837 but I see Donald is listed as "fisher" in this one, so dont think its the same family...There were quiete a few Macrae's in the same area... :-(