Genealogy Chat

Hi,
On the 1891 census (and 1881, 10 years younger) in Redruth, Cornwall, there are –
Oram, John Head 55
Oram, Mary A Wife 54
Various children
Temby, Mary J, Mother, W 76.

Mary does not appear to be Mary Oram’s mother as I reckon that she was a Scadden/Scaddan. She would be too old to be a grandmother.
I have tracked Mary J back to 1851 – the latter as Tembey, Mary A.

Who was she?

In 1899 Thomas Oram, son of John and Mary, (born abt 1876) married Elizabeth Ann Reed – my 4th cousin once removed. (YES I AM that old!)

In 1907, Elizabeth’s sister Susan married Henry Temby. His first name seems to change in earlier census data – and his father is missing.

Are they related? Am I on a wild goose/red herring chase? Is it just a coincidence or is it a nightmare?

It doesn’t really matter, but it’s a niggling question. Tell me I’m mad.

B

Was she John's mother, born to her before she married to a Temby?


From http://www.freereg.org.uk/ The U.K. Parish Register Information site.




County Cornwall
Place Camborne
Church St. Martin and St. Meriadoc
RegisterNumber
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 16 Jul 1836
Forename John
Sex M
FatherForename
MotherForename Mary
FatherSurname
MotherSurname ORAM
Abode Stennac
FatherOccupation
Notes Single
FileNumber 23789


Or is this a different John Oram?

Is this Mary with John in 1851?



From.... http://www.freecen.org.uk/ ..... Free 1841 - 1891 UK Census Online.



1851 Census


Piece: HO107/1916 Place: Camborne -Cornwall Enumeration District: 1c
Civil Parish: Camborne Ecclesiastical Parish: Camborne
Folio: 110 Page: 55 Schedule: 192
Address: Centenary St

Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
TEMBEY Edward Head M M 36 Copper Miner Cornwall - Camborne
TEMBEY Mary Wife M F 36 Cornwall - Camborne
TEMBEY John Son U M 15 Copper Mine Boy Cornwall - Camborne
TEMBEY William Son U M 8 Scholar Cornwall - Camborne
TEMBEY Phillipa Dau U F 5 Cornwall - Camborne
TEMBEY Mary Dau U F 7 Cornwall - Camborne
TEMBEY Henry Son U M 3 Cornwall - Camborne
TEMBEY Edward Son U M 1 Cornwall - Camborne

A possible marriage from FreeBMD..... http://www.freebmd.org.uk/



Marriages Mar 1842 (>99%)
CUNDY Lavinia Redruth 9 273
DUNSTONE William Redruth 9 273
JEFIREE Catharine Redruth 9 273
>>>>>ORAM Mary Redruth 9 273
PENDRAY Thomas Redruth 9 273
>>>>>TEMBY Edward Redruth 9 273

Hi C,

Thanks, I hadn't found that. Where was it?
I can't see a John Temby or Oram with a right aged Mary mother in 1841/1851 - but let's be charitable and say that they were sometimes "confused". I certainly am.
From memory, Mary T was a widow with a daughter of about 20, also Mary T, in 1851.

As I said, it doesn't really matter - but thanks.

b


EDIT

My word lass, you've added so much while I dithered. It is way past my bedtime here so I'll look at this in the morning.

Many thanks,

B

You're welcome. :-)

I've already added the links to the free sites I've used, above.

Cornwall seems to be very well covered by both, although not all other counties are.

Hope you don't mind me adding extra, but I am bored :-)


This, again, is from ..... http://www.freereg.org.uk/


What about this for a possible baptism for John's mother Mary?

County Cornwall
Place Camborne
Church St. Martin and St. Meriadoc
RegisterNumber
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 02 May 1815
Forename Mary
Sex F
FatherForename Daniel
MotherForename Christian
FatherSurname ORAMWHITEHEAD
MotherSurname ORAM
Abode
FatherOccupation Hatter
Notes Base d of Daniel Whitehead, fugitive, hatter.
FileNumber 23745

Mary's mother's marriage?...... http://www.freereg.org.uk/


County Cornwall
Place Camborne
Church St. Martin and St. Meriadoc
RegisterNumber
MarriageDate 14 Apr 1818
GroomForename Thomas
GroomSurname CARAH
GroomAge
GroomParish Crowan
GroomCondition
GroomOccupation Miner
GroomAbode
BrideForename Christian
BrideSurname ORAM
BrideAge
BrideParish
BrideCondition
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode
GroomFatherForename
GroomFatherSurname
GroomFatherOccupation
BrideFatherForename
BrideFatherSurname
BrideFatherOccupation
WitnessOneForename Stephen
WitnessOneSurname BRAY
WitnessTwoForename William
WitnessTwoSurname CARAH
Notes
FileNumber 23727

Christian in 1851..... http://www.freecen.org.uk/


1851 Census

Piece: HO107/1916 Place: Camborne -Cornwall Enumeration District: 1c
Civil Parish: Camborne Ecclesiastical Parish: Camborne
Folio: 85 Page: 5 Schedule: 16
Address: Union St

Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
CARAH Thomas Head M M 57 Copper Miner Cornwall - Crowan
CARAH Christian Wife M F 57 Cornwall - Camborne
CARAH Ketura Dau U F 26 Copper Mine Girl Cornwall - Camborne
CARAH Elizabeth Dau U F 20 Copper Mine Girl Cornwall - Camborne
CARAH Thomas Son U M 15 Errand Boy Cornwall - Camborne




And in 1841.......


1841 Census

Piece: HO107/141/2 Place: Penwith -Cornwall Enumeration District: 3
Civil Parish: Camborne Ecclesiastical Parish: -
Folio: 10 Page: 12
Address: Union Street

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
CARAH Thos. M 40 Miner Cop Cornwall
CARAH Kitty F 40 Cornwall
CARAH John M 20 Miner Cop Cornwall
CARAH Wm. M 15 Miner Cop Cornwall
CARAH Eth. F 11 Mine Girl Cornwall
CARAH Ths. M 6 Cornwall
CARAH John M 5 Cornwall


As the 1841 census does not show relationships, there is no way of knowing for sure, but could John Carah be her grandson John Oram?


I can't find a John Carah aged 15 in the 1851 census or a death for him.


Be interesting to see who Mary Oram named as her father, when she married Edward Temby.

Wonder if she knew about Daniel Whitehead "The Fugitive Hatter"!!!

B,

Do you know about this site, Cornwall Online Parish Clerk?


http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/person-search/



Mary Oram's marriage to Edward Temby........

Day Month 29-Mar
Year 1842
Parish Or Reg District Camborne
Groom Fn Edward
Groom Sn TEMBY
Groom Age full age
Groom Residence Town
Groom Condition bachelor
Groom Rank Profession Miner
Groom Signed / Marked (S/M) M
Groom Father Name John(deceased)
Groom Father Rank Profession Miner
Bride Fn Mary
Bride Sn ORAM
Bride Age full age
Bride Residence Town
Bride Condition spinster
Bride Rank Profession Servant
Bride Signed / Marked (S/M) M
Bride Father Name John(deceased)
Bride Father Rank Profession Farmer
Banns / Licence (B/L) B
Witness Fn1 John
Witness Sn1 Duckham
Witness Fn2 John
Witness Sn2 Dunstone

She's named her father as John (deceased) a farmer.


Now, was that a face saver?

Or, she had been told his name was John?

Or, she's not the Mary whose baptism I posted above?


Could do with another set of eyes having a look-see. :-D


Edited for grammar. :-D...but still not sure. Is it who's or whose?

Going back to the Henry Temby who married Susan Reed. Does he give his place of birth as Crowan in the 1911 census?


Is this the one you've been looking at in the earlier censuses?



1881 England Census
Name: H. Temby
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Elizabeth Temby
Gender: Male
Where born: Crowan, Cornwall, England
Civil parish: Camborne
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England
Street Address: Troon 24 Pendarves Row

Subscribe now to see this information.
Registration district: Redruth
Sub-registration district: Camborne
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2335
Folio: 95
Page Number: 20
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Temby 44......Married.....Camborne
Arthur Temby 9.....New Jersey, United States
Howard Temby 5......Crowan
H. Temby 4

He was baptised at the same time as his brothers Arthur & Howard.....but his name at baptism was Samuel Henry.

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/person-search/


Day Month 05-Nov
Year 1876
Parish Or Reg District Treslothan
Forename Samuel Henry
Surname TEMBY
Sex
Father Forename Henry
Mother Forename Elizabeth
Residence Troon
Father Rank Profession miner

Sorry B, I seem to have monopolised your thread.

:-(

Christina,

I think your postings are correct, she's his mother.

Kind regards
Amanda

Thanks for that, Amanda.

I was afraid I was just trying to make her fit. :-D

I think she fits just fine, especially as she is a servant in 1841 Cambourne and has no son with her:

National Archive Reference:
RG number:
HO107
Piece:141
Book/Folio:1/13 Page:18
Reg. District:Redruth
Sub District:Camborne
Parish:Camborne
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address:Church Row, Camborne County:Cornwall
NEWTON, Llewyn M 55 1786
NEWTON, Hannah F 45 1796
NEWTON, Henry M 20 1821
NEWTON, Edward M 15 1826
NEWTON, Jonathan M 14 1827
NEWTON, Mary F 8 1833
NEWTON, Benjamin M 6 1835
BURRALL, Grace F 20 1821
BRYANT, Elizabeth F 25 1816
ORAM, Mary F 25 1816

I wonder what happened to Daniel the Hatter?
How interesting!

Kind regards
Amanda

Thanks ladies,

I haven't yet digested it all - but - Edited - got wires crossed. So John could have benn O then T then back to O

Henry Temby who married Susan Reed is, I am sure, the H. and also "jos" in otherr censuses because of the USA born brother. He was born in Crowan according to 1911.

I'll need time to chart this out to compare.

Thanks again

B