Genealogy Chat

Hi
I wondering if anyone has any info on Thomas Nathan. He was born in 1843 or 1847 in Wellington, Shropshire. He married Betsy Lemon in Cockermouth, Cumbria in 1873. His father was John Nathan. Thomas and John were both coal miners. On his marriage certificate his surname was spelt as Nathom.

What info do you already have such as census

What type of info are you looking for ?

Is this the right family in the 1881 census:-

1881 census transcription details for: Square, Tudhoe

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 4958
Folio: 131
Page: 30
Reg. District: Durham
Sub District: St Oswald
Parish: Tudhoe
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:

Address: Square, Tudhoe
County: Durham

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born

NATHAN, Thomas Head Married M 38 1843 Miner Coal
Wellington, Shropshire
NATHAN, Betsy Wife Married F 30 1851
Maryport, Cumberland
NATHAN, Isabella Daughter Single F 7 1874 Scholar
Maryport, Cumberland
NATHAN, John H Son Single M 5 1876 Scholar
Tudhoe, Durham
NATHAN, Thomas Son Single M 3 1878 Scholar
Tudhoe, Durham

Kath. x

Same family in the 1891 c ensus:-

1891 census transcription details for: 30, Holywell Square, Holywell, West Holywell

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12
Piece: 4234
Folio: 119
Page: 13
Reg. District: Tynemouth
Sub District: Earsdon
Parish: Holywell
Enum. District: 7
Ecclesiastical District: Earsdon
City/Municipal Borough:

Address: 30, Holywell Square, Holywell, West Holywell
County: Northumberland

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born

NATHAN, Thomas Head Married M 47 1844 Coal Miner
Shropshire
NATHAN, Elizabeth Wife Married F 40 1851
Maryport, Cumberland
NATHAN, Isabella Daughter Single F 18 1873
Maryport, Cumberland
NATHAN, John Son Single M 16 1875 Coal Miner
Tudhoe, Durham
NATHAN, Thomas Son M 14 1877 Coal Miner
Tudhoe, Durham
NATHAN, Elizabeth Daughter F 9 1882
Tudhoe, Durham
NATHAN, Henry L Son M 2 1889
Tudhoe, Durham

Kath. x

1861 England Census
about Thomas Natton

Name:
Thomas Natton

Age:
16

Estimated Birth Year:
abt 1845

Relation:
Son

Father's Name:
John Natton

Mother's Name:
Sarah Natton

Gender:
Male

Where born:
Wellington, Shropshire, England

Civil Parish:
Wellington

County/Island:
Shropshire

Country:
England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Registration District:
Wellington

Sub-registration District:
Wellington

ED, institution, or vessel:
1

Neighbors:

Household Schedule Number:
134

Piece:
1897

Folio:
17

Page Number:
27

Household Members:


Name

Age

John Natton 47 Stone Sawyer born Wellington, Shropshire
Sarah Natton 43 Stone Sawyers Wife born Wellington, Shropshire
Charles Natton 21 Brickmaker's Labourer born Wellington, Shropshire
Thomas Natton 16 Brickmaker's Labourer born Wellington, Shropshire
George Natton 9 Scholar born Wellington, Shropshire
Henry Natton 5 Scholar born Wellington, Shropshire


Source Citation: Class: RG 9; Piece: 1897; Folio: 17; Page: 27; GSU roll: 542884.


Edited to add occupation and place of birth.

1851 England Census
about Thomas Hatton

Name:
Thomas Hatton

Age: 5

Estimated Birth Year: about 1846

Relation: Son

Father's Name: John Hatton

Mother's Name: Sarah Hatton

Gender: M (Male)

Where born: Wellington, Shropshire, England

Civil Parish: Wellington

Town: Wellington

County/Island: Shropshire

Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Registration District: Wellington

Sub-registration District: Ercall Magna

ED, institution, or vessel: 1c

Household Schedule Number: 34

Piece: 1997

Folio: 220

Page Number: 13

Household Members:

John Hatton 37
Sarah Hatton 33
Charles Hatton 11
Thomas Hatton 5
Thomas Adams 22
Phebe Adams 19
Charles Allen 33
William Jordan 19

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1997; Folio: 220; Page: 13; GSU roll: 87399.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Jun 1843 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HATTON Thomas Wellington Salop 18 114
Hatton Thomas Wellington Salop 18 184
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Jun 1845 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HATTON Thomas Wellington 18 179
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1847 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hatton Thomas Wellington Sal 18 193


EDIT: There are no birth registrations for the surname Nathan in Shropshire between 1840 and 1850

Until 1875, there were no penalties for not registering births.......many simply went unrecorded.

A baptism is more likely

What was his declared age when he married?

Hello Patricia and welcome to the Community Boards.






As Patricia is a new poster, I will send her a friendly message on how to return to her thread. :-)

Thanks for the info...do you know who John Nathan or Hatton married? Are you sure Hatton is the right surname? :-S

Who is your direct ancestor in this family ?

Hello Patricia,

The Nathan/Natton/Hatton confusion is simply caused by transcription errors on the census forms. Some of the enumerators taking the details would either write down what they heard or simply get the spelling wrong. When volunteers transcribe these records, they have to put exactly what the handwriting looks like, not what they think it should be - hope that makes sense. :-)

Thank you for your reply, my father was Thomas Henry Ernest Nathan, his father was Thomas Nathan, and his father Henry Lemon Nathan, and his father was Thomas Nathan, and his father was John Nathan.
John Nathan is my g.g.g. grandfather, and he is where I can't go any further. My father always wanted to know who his ancestors were but unfortunately he died, so I am trying to carry on with his wish. :-(

This is Henry Lemon Nathan's birth record:-


Name: NATHAN, Henry Lemon
Registration district: Durham
County: Durham
Year of registration: 1888
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no: 10A
Page no: 352

Kath. x

I have Henry Lemon Nathan birth record but thank you for making the effort...Thomas Nathan and his family is what I am interested in, if you can help I would be most grateful :-) :-)

Patricia


You have been given the 1851 and 1861 Censuses, with Thomas living with his family

I will re-post them here



1861 Census

Name: Thomas Natton
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Natton
Mother's Name: Sarah Natton
Gender: Male
Where born: Wellington, Shropshire, England

Civil Parish: Wellington
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Registration District: Wellington
Sub-registration District: Wellington

John Natton 47 b.ca 1814, Wellington, Shropshire, Stone Sawyer
Sarah Natton 43 b.ca 1818, Wellington
Charles Natton 21
Thomas Natton 16
George Natton 9
Henry Natton 5

Address:- Chapel Lane


It is Natton on the census .............. but try to imagine how the Shropshire accent might have sounded!


1851 Census

Name: Thomas Hatton
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Hatton
Mother's Name: Sarah Hatton
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Wellington, Shropshire, England

Civil Parish: Wellington
Town: Wellington
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Registration District: Wellington
Sub-registration District: Ercall Magna

John Hatton 37 b.ca 1814, Wellington, Shropshire, Journeyman Sawyer
Sarah Hatton 33 b.ca 1818, Wellington
Charles Hatton 11
Thomas Hatton 5
Thomas Adams 22 Visitor
Phebe Adams 19 Visitor
Charles Allen 33 Lodger
William Jordan 19 Lodger

Address:- Walker Street





from www.familysearch.org/


Thomas Hatton, "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975"

Name: Thomas Hatton
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 04 May 1845
Christening Place: WELLINGTON,SHROPSHIRE,ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: John Hatton
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Sarah
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C03752-3
System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: 503537, 503538, 503539, 503540
Reference ID:



It really does seem that the family changed their name from Hatton to Natton and then to Nathan or Nathom at some point between 1851 and 1871


There are no other families that fit the scenario except for these.

Hi Sylvia
The information I have is as follows: Thomas Nathan/Nathom married Betsy Lemon in February 1873 at the Register Office, Cockermouth, Cumberand. Thomas was 25 years and Betsy Lemon was 22 years.
On the marriage certificate Thomas's father was John Nathom.
I have the census of Thomas Nathan, 1901, residing at 21 The Square, Holywell, Northumberland. 1891, resided at 31 Holywell Square, Holywell West, Northumberland. 1881, resided at Square, Tudhoe, Durham. 1861, Thomas Natton resided at Chapel Lane, Wellington, Shropshire. He died Oct/Dec 1910 Newcastle Upon Tyne aged 67 years and Betsy died Oct/Dec 1920 Tynemouth, Northumberland.
In the 1861 Census, John Natton was married to Sarah unknown, can't find their marriage. The oldest child was Charles Natton born about 1840 at Wellington, Shropshire. they had two other brothers, George and Henry. all born in Wellington, Shropshire, born 1851 and 1855 respectively. Thomas was a miner and John was a miner by the marriage certificate.
Thomas and Betsy had 4 sons, John Henry, Thomas, Henry Lemon and Robert Lemon and 2 daughters, Isabella (Bella) and Elizabeth (Bessie).
The oldest son John Henry was named after his father and Henry was named after her father. Isabella named after her mother. There is no Sarah in the family line.
This is all the info I have, that is why I am trying to go back further as there most be more. My father Thomas Henry Ernest Nathan tried to go back on his family on what he knew, but died some years back and I am trying to keep the tradition going.
I would be most grateful if you can help me go further back.
My father thought he might have been from a family of Jews and lived in Isreal or some place like that. He read the bible and this is where his notion came from. :-S

Patricia


you have been given all this information!

Both by me and by the other posters on this thread.

Are you reading it very carefully??????



Henry Lemon Nathan was the son of Thomas Nathan and Betsy/Betsey/Elizabeth Lemon

Thomas Nathan/Nathom/Natton/Hatton was the son of John Natton/Hatton and Sarah ?



A Family Tree on ancestry has John Hatton marrying Sarah in 1839


This is a possible marriage ............... from www.freebmd.org.uk

Marriages Dec 1839 (>99%)

HATTON John Madeley 18 161
JORDAN Sarah Madeley 18 161


NOTE that William Jordan, age 19, (b. ca 1832, Wellington) is a Lodger with John and Sarah in 1851

I wonder if he is a family member of Sarah's????


As I suggested above, it looks as though this family changed the spelling of their names, but I have no suggestions to make as to why!



All that I can suggest that you can now do is for you to BUY a birth certificate for at least one of the children ...........say Charles Natton .............. that will tell you Sarah's maiden name, and will help save any more fishing around in the dark.


In case you do not know, to order a birth certificate, go to the following site ..........

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/


each certificate will cost you £9.25 (including p&p, worldwide).


I firmly believe this is now the only avenue left to you.