Genealogy Chat

Thanks Chris, yes that entry in CuriosFox is indeed mine
Quite an interesting site to use. .
:-D

http://www.curiousfox.com/history/lincolnshire_13.html

(above has below request, not sure if yours)

(Searching for details of John Hall and Martha Whyment)

Chris :)

Hmm, on second thought and after much mulling on it I think that the term 'sojourner' DOES apply to Martha. That might account for the fact that she was the only Whyment I could find on that film.
Just one of genealogys challenges :-)

These two pictures also have sojourners in them
One stating that they were both sojourners, the other
clearly indicates which of them is the sojourner.

So as there is no mention of 'bachelor' on John and Maratha's entry I think that it means that he is the sojourner

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55863919/for%20drop%20box.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55863919/drop%20box%202.JPG

Thanks for all the replies, I am as ever bowled over by the willingness of the 'genies' to help.
In the http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl entry it does look as thought Martha is the 'sojourner' but on the actual entry in the register after Martha's name ( the female names are always second) it says spinster, & sojourner. I thought this referred to her as spinster and him as sojourner.

I'm not at home right now but when I get back this evening I will double check the other entries on the page where there are other 'sojourners'.

A sojourner is a person who resides temporarily in a place.

Ironic that the Mars probe rover was named Sojourner rover.
It has only just clicked the rational behind the name.

Like the way you have managed to include the doc in your post. Makes it all the more interesting :-)

Doesn't the marriage entry read that John was of that parish.?

I read it as if Martha was not a permanent resident there.................................

Gwyn

(also on below)

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

County Lincolnshire
Place Crowland
Church St Guthlac
RegisterNumber 348
MarriageDate 11 Oct 1796
GroomForename John
GroomSurname HALL
GroomAge
GroomParish Crowland
GroomCondition Widower
GroomOccupation
GroomAbode Crowland
BrideForename Martha
BrideSurname WHYMENT
BrideAge
BrideParish Crowland
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode Crowland
GroomFatherForename
GroomFatherSurname
GroomFatherOccupation
BrideFatherForename
BrideFatherSurname
BrideFatherOccupation
WitnessOneForename Ann
WitnessOneSurname ASHBY
WitnessTwoForename Sheb
WitnessTwoSurname BECKWITH
Notes By Banns. Martha-sojourner In This Parish.

Chris :)

edits (entry on FMP)

Day:11
Month:Oct
Year:1796
Groom Forename(s):John
Groom Surname:HALL
Bride Forename(s):Martha
Bride Surname:WHYMENT
Parish:Crowland
Deanery:West Elloe
County:Lincolnshire
Notes:JH wid/MW sojourner
Record source:Lincolnshire Marriage Index
Data provider:Lincolnshire Family History Society

This is a link to a picture of the entry , hopefully I have done it correctly

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55863919/marriage%20cert%2001%20-%20Copy.jpg

As to the origin of the word

(v.) Middle English sojurnen < Old French sojorner to rest, stay < Vulgar Latin *subdiurnare, equivalent to Latin sub- sub- + diurn ( us ) of a day + -are infinitive suffix; (noun) Middle English sojurne < Old French sojorn, derivative of the v.; see journey

And for journeyman
1425–75; late Middle English journeman, equivalent to journee a day's work (see journey) + man man1

So...a very talented and trained craftsman.

Reggie, exactly what I learnt in History at school.

Googled.............

A journeyman is someone who has completed an apprenticeship and is fully educated in a trade or craft, but not yet a master. To become a master, a journeyman has to submit a master work piece to a guild for evaluation and be admitted to the guild as a master.

The word journeyman comes from the French word journée, which means a period of one day. The title refers to the journeyman's right to charge a fee for each day's work. Journeymen would normally be employed by a master craftsman, but would live apart and might have a family of their own. A journeyman could not employ others. In contrast, an apprentice would be bound to a master, usually for a fixed term of seven years, and lived with the master as a member of the household, receiving most or all compensation in the form of food and lodging.

Those terms still drive me crazy....

What I THINK I know is that a journeyman was not an apprentice to a master craftsman. He was (not being bound to a contract) able to work and live independently.

A "sojourner" gives me the impression that they (he or she) were not of that area/parish.

i.e. Not our problem..we can do a removal order on you and make your home parish keep you.

I'd always (mistakenly) thought a journeyman was someone who travelled plying their trade. It wasn't until someone explained on here a few years back that it related to being paid daily, from the French for day - jour.

Yes, a journeyman was originally someone paid by the day.

Seeing the term sojourner has got me thinking

It this where the term Journeyman derives?

It certainly makes etymological sense to me.....

If you want to post up his details we can see if we can turn anything up.

Hmm, thanks Susan, I just wanted to confirm it. That creates an entirely new challenge to try to find where he was actually from.
:-S

A sojourner is a person who resides temporarily in a place :-D

From Google :-D

After going nearly cross-eyed looking at a microfilm in the SOG library I found the parish record entry of my 3 x great grand parents. He is described as a widower, so I have yet another task to add to my to do list. :-S
Following their names is the description,' spinster & sojourner of this parish'.

Reading other entries on the same page, I think the term 'sojourner' applies to him rather than her.
Am I right in thinking that it means that he was not an actual resident of that parish