Genealogy Chat

Thankyou very very much to you kind folks who have taken the trouble to
bring me up to speed re BMD and marriage certiificates in particular

Now I can move ahead with confidence

Thanks again

Mike

Hello Michael and welcome to the Community boards. :-)




I'll send Michael a message to alert him to his replies. :-)

Michael, this is a very useful site for down to earth explanations of what to expect on marriage certificates (plus links to other certificates)

http://www.dixons.clara.co.uk/Certificates/marriages.htm#COL8

Check the status on his kids' marrs of Richard Hill (or Lazarus as he was known locally).


1881 England Census
Civil Parish: Aspull
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 9 Heayes Sq
Registration District: Wigan
Sub-registration District: Aspull
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Piece: 3759 Folio: 14 Page Number: 22

Richard Hill 40
Elizabeth Hill 30
James Hill 39
Richard Hill 18
Alice Hill 10
Robert Hill 7
Mary J. Hill 4
John Hill 2


Marriage: 25 Aug 1894 St Elizabeth of Hungary, Aspull, Lancs.
Robert Hill - 21, Collier, Bachelor, Heyes Square, higher Gullet, Aspull
Ellen Westhead - 21, Pit-Brow Woman, Spinster, 2 Leigh's Yard, Hr. Gullet, Aspull
Groom's Father: Richard Hill, (decd.), Collier
Bride's Father: John Westhead, (decd), Collier
Witness: Emmanuel Seddon; Alice Hill, (X)
Married by Banns by: George F. Grundy M.A. Vicar
Register: Marriages 1883 - 1907, Page 101, Entry 202
Source: LDS Film 1885720

Marriage: 13 Oct 1894 St Elizabeth of Hungary, Aspull, Lancs.
Emmanuel Seddon - 20, Collier, Bachelor, 284 Chorley Road, Wingates, Westhoughton
Mary Jane Hill - 19, Pit-Brow Woman, Spinster, 11 Lr. Gullet, Aspull
Groom's Father: Emmanuel Seddon, Collier
Bride's Father: Richard Hill, Collier
Witness: Thomas Westwell; Sarah Barstow
Married by Banns by: George F. Grundy M.A. Vicar
Register: Marriages 1883 - 1907, Page 102, Entry 203
Source: LDS Film 1885720

Lies can be told

My g/g/grandfather married very quickly for a 2nd time after the death of his first wife. His 2nd wife had been a neighbour and contemporary in age to several of his older children. They quickly had 3 children.

When some of his older children married the named him and stated he was 'deceased'. I can assure you he was alive an well and living on the same street as those same children!

:-D

I also have had certs saying a trade of father, but gone on to find he had died years before the marriage took place.

I have also hade a trade written down that the father had never done.

Diane

Sometimes too to hide illegitimacy a made up name is given and sometimes as deceased . One of my relies put her grandads name as her dad to hide her background

On the other hand, the father could be declared deceased, even when he wasn't!

Sometimes, but not always, it could have been because the bride/groom was underage or had moved away from home. The father might also have left the family home and his whereabouts unknown.

No it doesn't follow I,m afraid . Depends how the question was asked at the time .
Yonks ago when I was first starting out I spent time and money on wrong certs looking for a grt grandfather after 1881
When one of his sons married in 1898 the cert didn't say deceased for his dad but I eventually found he had died in 1884

No, one can't......too many variables.

And - conversely - a 'deceased' father may be a cover-up for illegitimacy

Hi Michael and welcome to the GR message boards.

The cert is not a reliable guide. Its only as good as the person asking the info and the info being given. The fathers name itself can be missing or made up to cover an illegitimate birth. The occupation itself can be wrong (I have an example shown as farmer when it should be agricultural labourer). If the father is shown as deceased, he probably is, but if the question wasn't asked at the time of writing the cert, then it won't be on the cert.

Andy

The last two columns on a marriage certificate: Father's Name, Father's Trade/Occupation.
If the relevant person was deceased at the time of the marriage, the word "Deceased" was written instead of or in addition to trade.

However if "Deceased" was omitted, can one assume said person is alive
at the time of the wedding.

I have been unable to confirm whether this practice was consistent