Genealogy Chat

I am trying to locate the PARENTS of RICHARD GROVES born c1843 Chirbury Shropshire and died 1891 Brinston Norfolk. Richard was a Platelayer/1881.

In 2nd quarter 1870 Pancras London Richard married ANNE MARIA GIBBS born c1845 Barnes in Ware Hertfordshire.

In 1881 Richard and Alice lived at 15 York Road Hammersmith London – at one time they lived at 48 Langford Road Kentish Town London – 1891 Anne now a widow lived in Fakenham Road Brinston and they had at least 4 children (Chares – Edward – Sarah – Mary):-

I cannot find Richard in any census prior to 1871 or who his parents are. Even the BMD index does not show me his birth.

Jo

Name: Richard Groves
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Age: 29
Spouse Name: Ann Maria Gibbs
Spouse Age: 25
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 6 Jun 1870
Parish: Kentish Town St Martin
Borough: Camden
Father Name: Edward Groves - blacksmith
Spouse Father Name: Joseph Gibbs - stonemason
Register Type: Parish Register


Witness look like Thomas Boden and Elizabeth Down

Burial
County Norfolk
Place Holt
Church St Andrew
RegisterNumber 401
BurialDate 10 Jan 1891
Forename Richard
Relationship
Rel1MaleForename
Rel1FemaleForename
Rel1Surname
Surname GROVES
Age 47
Abode Obelisk plain Holt

(if him, from below link)

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

Chris :)

?

1861 England Census about Richard Grones
Name: Richard Grones
[Richard Groves]
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: St Chad, Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: St Mary
Town: Shrewsbury
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View Image
Registration District: Shrewsbury
Sub-registration District: St Mary
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 77
Piece: 1869
Folio: 37
Page Number: 16
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Jones 39
Ann Johnson 79
Thomas Williams 39
Richard Grones 21 <<<<<<<
Alfred Grindley 20
James Crump 29
Betsy Crump 25
Henry H Crump 8 Months
Samuel Crump 14
Ann Hagle 55
William H Robinson 8
Sarah J Davies 16

Thank you so far for your instant replies, they are all appreciated.
Jo

is the only information on his birth place from the 1881 Census?

1871 as well.

Ozi

There are 2 illegitimate Richards christened in Chirbury, 1842 and 1843, and another 2 in 1841.

There is also an Edward Groves in Chirbury in 1841 with an age that fits the scenario (18 yrs).

This one fits the bill really well as a Mary Reece is a female servant in the same household:
Richard Rees
christening: 27 August 1843 CHIRBURY,SHROPSHIRE,ENGLAND
mother: Mary Rees

Unfortunately it looks as if Edward dies soon after.

Deaths Sep 1844 GROVES Edward Montgomery 27 68 (Chirbury is in Montgomery registration district in 1841)

1841 England Census
Name: Edward Greves [Edward Groves]
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1823
Gender: Male
Where born: Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: Chirbury
Hundred: Chirbury (Lower Division)
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Street Address: Wotherton
Occupation: none recorded
Registration District: Montgomery
Sub-registration District: Chirbury
Piece: 909
Book: 22
Folio: 59
Page Number: 2
Household Members:
Anne Greves abt 1786 Shropshire, England - Farmer
Anne Greves abt 1821
William Greves abt 1816
Michael Greves abt 1818
Samuel Greves abt 1811
Edward Greves abt 1823 Shropshire, England <<<<<
John Pearce abt 1831 Shropshire, England
Mary Reece abt 1821 Shropshire, England - F.S. <<<<<
Mary Pugh abt 1826 Shropshire, England - F.S.
Alexander Hugar abt 1816 Shropshire, England - Ag Lab
John Harlshon abt 1811 Shropshire, England - Ag Lab
Thomas Jones abt 1822 Shropshire, England - Ag Lab
Maurice Witterglton abt 1826 Shropshire, England - Ag Lab

Until 1875, there were no penalties for not registering births..........so not finding one isn't unusual

Not sure if this has any relevance, as no indication of age:

UK, Poll Books and Electoral Registers, 1538-1893

Name: Richard Phillips Groves
Poll Year: 1868
Parish or Rectory: Chirbury

"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975"
Name: Edward Groves
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 22 Sep 1822
Christening Place: CHIRBURY, SHROPSHIRE, ENGLAND
Father's Name: William Groves
Mother's Name: Anne
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01726-2

5 kilometres from Chidbury

1851 England Census
Name: Richard Rheese
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relation: Visitor
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Chickney, Shropshire, England [Chirbury, Shropshire, England]
Civil Parish: Church Stoke
Ecclesiastical parish: Hereford
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Street Address:Church Stoke
Occupation: Scholar
Registration District: Montgomery
Sub-registration District: Montgomery
Piece: 2498
Folio: 198
Page Number: 21
Household Members:
John Marston abt 1800 Mont, Shendskt Head - Farm Labourer
Elizabeth Marston abt 1795 Chickney, Shropshire, England Wife
Richard Rheese abt 1844 Chickney, Shropshire, England Visitor
Elizabeth Evans abt 1849 Chickney, Shropshire, England Visitor


I wonder if this is Mum.
1861 Wales Census
Name: Mary Reese
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Church Stoke, Shropshire, England
Civil Parish or Township: Leighton
County/Island: Montgomeryshire
Country: Wales
Street Address:
Occupation:
Registration District: Montgomery
Sub-registration District: Pool
Piece: 4257
Folio: 5
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Wm Williams abt 1800 Buttington, Montgomeryshire, Wales Husband - Farmer of 100 acres
Wm Williams abt 1826 Buttington, Montgomeryshire, Wales Son
Freld Williams abt 1837 Lewlton, Montgomeryshire, Wales Son
John Williams abt 1798 Buttington, Montgomeryshire, Wales Boarder
Mary Reese abt 1821 Church Stoke, Shropshire, England Servant - Housekeeper
James Barrett abt 1842 Leighton, Montgomeryshire, Wales Servant
James Llorrycult abt 1844 Leighton, Montgomeryshire, Wales Servant
Ann Francis abt 1850 Forden, Montgomeryshire, Wales Servant

In summing up:
Richard’s parents could have been EDWARD GROVES and MARY REECE who appear to have had a relationship producing one child out of wedlock (BMD index shows a Richard Reese registered in Montgomery 1842)

Unfortunately Edward died young c1844 (whether they planned to marry or not is not known)

Richard is shown in the 1851 census as Richard RHEESE and the 1861 census as Richard GRONES, probably adopting his father’s surname.

Edwards was christened 22nd September 1822 Chirbury – his parents being WILLIAM GROVES born c1778 Shrewsbury and ANNE HOTCHKISS born c1780 Bishop Castle Shropshire. They married 21st February 1805 in Church Stoke Montgomeryshire and possibly had numerous children (Samuel – Mary – Sarah – Martha – Hannah – William – Robert – Michael – Ann – Margaret – Edward – Benjamin – Joseph – Thomas). I have yet to sort the children out or if they all belong to William and Anne.

Thank you all again for your invaluable help in this research.

Where is he living in 1861? This is the only Richard I can find and his occupation isn't right.

1861 England Census (as per Rambling Rose, 20 Sep 2013 19:41)
NAME: Richard Grones
BIRTH: abt 1840 - St Chad, Shropshire, England
RESIDENCE: 1861 - Shrewsbury, St Mary, Shropshire, England
Occupation: Glass Stainer (In 1871 your Richard is a platelayer for the Great Northern Railway.)



Also the above seems to be here in 1841 (before your Richard was born):

1841 England Census
Name: Richard Groves
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Gender: Male
Where born: Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: St Chad
Hundred: Shrewsbury Borough
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Registration District: Shrewsbury
Sub-registration District: St Chad
Piece: 926
Book: 8
Page Number: 1
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Groves 38
Ann Groves 34
Richard Groves 13

There are more in the household but I didn't bother.