Genealogy Chat

My friend has asked me if I could ask others on here more about his family. Here goes: John Edward Knight born 1939 in Hackney his parents were: Edward Charles Knight, born 1901 ( but not sure) ,perhaps born in West Ham, and Elsie Jane Lutman born abt 1909 West Ham. I would like to know who Edward Charles Knight parents were ? Also Elsie Jane Lutman parents ? Hope you can help, thanks.

Marriage cert would be useful

1911 poss

Name: Elsie Lutman
Age in 1911: 1 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1910
Relation to Head: Daughter Gender: Female
Birth Place: Walthamstow, Essex Civil Parish: Walthamstow
County/Island: Essex Country: England
Street Address: Billett Villa, Billett Road, Walthamstow
Registration District: West Ham Registration District Number: 188 Sub-registration District: Walthamstow ED, institution, or vessel: 46 Household Schedule Number: 61 Piece: 9720 Household Members:
Name Age
James Lutman 43
Robbeca Lutman 31
James Lutman 19
George Lutman 16
Violet Rebbeca Lutman 8
Dorothy Lutman 14
Hiram Frederick Lutman 7
Lily Lutman 5
Clarence Lutman 3
Elsie Lutman 1

Any idea of when and where Edward died ?

A lot of my family were born Islington and ended up in Walthamstow

???

Births Mar 1907 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Knight Edward Charles Islington 1b 186



England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007
about Edward Charles Knight
Name:
Edward Charles Knight
Birth Date:
3 Mar 1907
Date of Registration:
Jun 1973
Age at Death:
66
Registration District:
Waltham Forest
Inferred County:
Greater London
Volume:
5e
Page:
836



1911 England Census
about Edward Charles Knight
Name:
Edward Charles Knight
Age in 1911:
4
Estimated Birth Year:
abt 1907
Relation to Head:
Son
Gender:
Male
Birth Place:
Islington, London, England
Civil Parish:
Tottenham
County/Island:
Middlesex
Country:
England
Street Address:
70 Westbury Avenue, Wood Green, West Green,Tottenham N
Occupation:
School
Registration District:
Edmonton
Sub-registration District:
West Tottenham
Charles Eaton Knight 33
Elizabeth Kate Knight 33
Constance Ann Knight 7
Edward Charles Knight 4

Elsie's birth registration

Your friend really needs to put out some money and buy certificates, otherwise it is all guesswork!



England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Elsie Jane Lutman

Name: Elsie Jane Lutman
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1909
Registration District: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 433



Marriage registration


England & Wales, Marriage Index, 1916-2005 about Elsie J Lutman

Name: Elsie J Lutman
Spouse Surname: Knight
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1938
Registration District: Edmonton
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume Number: 3a
Page Number: 2053
Find Spouse: Edward C Knight

The 1911 possible as posted by GB ................. here is the information from the image


James Lutman 43 b.ca 1868, Russells Water, Henley, Ocfordshire, Assistant Inspector of Buy Messengers, General Post Office
Robbeca Lutman 31 b.ca 1880, Old Cowley, Oxfordshire
James Lutman 19 b.ca 1892, Westminster, London, Warehouseman's Assistant
George Lutman 16 b.ca 1894, Walthamstow, Essex, Clerk, Gas Light and Coke Company Haggerstone
Dorothy Lutman 14 b.ca 1897, Walthamstow, Student
Violet Rebbeca Lutman 8 b.ca 1902, Walthamstow, Student
Hiram Frederick Lutman 7 b.ca 1904, Walthamstow, Student
Lily Lutman 5 b.ca 1906, Walthamstow, Student
Clarence Lutman 3 b.ca 1908, Walthamstow
Elsie Lutman 1


Married 10 years, 5 children born, 5 children living


I have rearranged the order as shown on the list ................... Dorothy was obviously born before Violet!!


I suggest that Rebecca is James Lutman's second wife.

Incidentally, her name IS Rebecca ...... that is what is written on the original census



here is the James and Rebecca marriage registration .............

Marriages Dec 1900 (>99%)

Bowell Rebecca W. Ham 4a 388
Lutman James W. Ham 4a 388

James with his first wife in 1891 .................


1891 Census

Name: James Lutman
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Harriett H Lutman
Gender: Male
Where born: Henley, Oxfordshire, England

Civil Parish: St John the Evangalist Westminster
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration District: St George Hanover Square
Sub-registration District: St John Westminster

James Lutman 23 Overseer of Telegraph Messengers, Post Office
Harriett H Lutman 26 b.ca 1865, Summertown, Oxfordshire
Ellen M Lutman 3 Months b.ca 1891, Westminster, London



and the 1901 Census .....

1901 Census

Name: James Lutman
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Rebecca Lutman
Gender: Male
Where born: Russells Water Swyncombe, Oxfordshire, England

Civil Parish: Walthamstow
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: Walthamstow
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Registration District: West Ham
Sub-registration District: Walthamstow

James Lutman 33 Assistant Inspector of Telegraph Messengers, G.P.O
Rebecca Lutman 23 b.ca 1878, Cowley, Oxfordshire
Ellen N Lutman 10 b.ca 1891, Westminster, London
James Lutman 9 b.ca 1892, Westminster
Amy Lutman 7 b.ca 1894, Walthamstow, Essex
George Lutman 6 b.ca 1895, Walthamstow
Dorothy Lutman 4 b.ca 1897, Walthamstow

Address:- 18 Spencer Rd, Forest Estate, Hale End Road



It looks like this might be the death of James' first wife Harriet, and possibly a baby

Deaths Mar 1899 (>99%)

Lutman Harriet Edges 34 W. Ham 4a 187
Lutman Harriet 0 Aston 6d 183



England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915 about Harriet Hedges Ewers

Name: Harriet Hedges Ewers
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1890
Registration District: St George Hanover Square
Inferred County: London
Volume Number: 1a
Page Number: 870
Records on Page:
Spouse: James Lutman


England & Wales Marriages, 1538-1940 about James Lutman

Name: James Lutman
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1868
Age: 32
Father's Name: James Lutman
Spouse's Name: Rebecca Bowell
Spouse's Age: 32
Spouse's Father's Name: Hiram Bowell
Marriage Date: 7 Oct 1900
Marriage Place: Walthamstow, Essex, England

Thanks very much for ALL this info, I will show it to him. Yes, seems very much you have the right family, brill! :-D

I don't know where Edward died, I don't have much more info, apart from the info given.

If he was your friends father...surely he knows? unless he didn't have contact

This Looks like his mothers death not a million miles away from Walthamstow


England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007
about Elsie Jane Knight
Name:
Elsie Jane Knight
Birth Date:
2 Oct 1909
Date of Registration:
Jan 1993
Age at Death:
83
Registration District:
epping Forest
Inferred County:
Essex
Register Number:
23C
District and Subdistrict:
4701
Entry number:
230


Looks like there were three children born Hackney, Epping and Essex SW (which would be Walthamstow area)

G

I suggest you get more information from your friend.

Tell him he has to buy those certificates.

Otherwise, as I said, it is all guesswork, and nothing is certain

............... and he really must know when his father died, or when he last saw him


Plus he should now the names of aunts of uncles ............... all that helps narrow the search down.


We can find a lot of information, but we're not magicians!


You yourself could have found much of the information re dates of birth, marriage etc just by looking at www.freebmd.org.uk ........................ a free site.

You can even search on ancestry without being a member, and could see what information might be there.

Ok, thanks. :-D

So it seems Edward Charles Knight parents were: Charles Eaton Knight and Elizabeth Kate Knight, I think her maiden surname may have been: Beard ? Married 1901 Marylebone. There is also another person with the surname Knight who married a person with the surname Beard, abt 1914, I think.

So the details I have given you are correct then?


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Charles Eaton Knight
Name:
Charles Eaton Knight >>>Postman
Estimated Birth Year:
abt 1878
Age:
23
Spouse Name:
Elizabeth Kate Beard
Spouse Age:
23
Record Type:
Marriage
Event Date:
2 Apr 1901
Parish:
St Marylebone
Borough:
Westminster
Father Name:
John Knight >>>Farmer
Spouse Father Name:
Thomas Beard >>>Labourer
Register Type:
Parish Register

jax, it seems very much the case. My friends father was a postman at some stage in his life, interesting that Charles Eaton Knight was also a postman. His father was John Knight, and her father was Thomas Beard.