Genealogy Chat

To be honest, it is difficult to give you that information with any definite proof .................. there are so many Sarah Child's on the censuses .................. around 35 each for the 1901 and 1911 ........... and the birth place is not always given accurately, for anyone.

Remember that most of the information we have is based on censuses which are held every 10 years ................ so 1901 would be the next time anyone could be found.


In fact ........... are you absolutely certain that the Sarah Child you found in the 1891 really is "yours"?

I wonder what happened to Sarah when she left the "Girls Home".Was she found a position in domestic service? I now know that William Child aged 9, brother of Charles was also at Leavesden School in1891 when did they leave and where did they go? I was told there were "workhouse leavers" records online but I have been unable to find any. Any help would be much appreciated.

Thank you Kathleen and Sylvia for all that info. Yes,I had the full Census return,and had hoped that the teacher with a French surname ,born in France, would indicate that this was not a puaper school! I wonder if James moved with Mr.Knight,I shall have to look for him in the 1891 Census.

from the reference given by Kathleen .........................


Crouch End or Hornsey (fn. 19) academy presumably opened when John Yeo of Hornsey, who kept several boarders, was licensed to teach in 1686. (fn. 20) In 1741 Jane Lovell, schoolmistress, left John Lee, apparently her assistant, the lease of property where the school was held. The wood engraver John Bewick (d. 1795) (fn. 21) taught there and the philologist John Grant (fn. 22) was tenant in 1810. W. C. Smith, Grant's successor and perhaps his associate by 1819, took foreign boys (fn. 23) and in 1844 offered an education to 40-50 young gentlemen, under a principal, four tutors, and a music teacher. (fn. 24) There were 42 pupils, aged 7 to 15, in 1851. (fn. 25) Crouch End school was said to be nearly 200 years old in 1872 (fn. 26) and still advertised in 1879, (fn. 27) but the site was sold to the Imperial Property Investment Co. in 1882. The last principal, T. Knight, moved with some pupils to Fairfield, Tottenham Lane, which was sold with the Topsfield estate in 1894, and then to the Chestnuts in Middle Lane, later replaced by Chestnut Court. (fn. 28) The original school building, with its playground on the corner of Park Road and Crouch End Broadway, (fn. 29) was described as in the Elizabethan style in 1844; the three-storeyed, weatherboarded house then stood east of a later, two-storeyed school block, with Dutch gables. The buildings had changed little by 1882, shortly before their demolition. (fn. 30) An establishment under J. Lynn was called Old Crouch Hall school for a short time after 1882. (fn. 31)

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Do you see the reference to "The last principal, T. Knight, moved with some pupils to Fairfield, Tottenham Lane, which was sold with the Topsfield estate in 1894, and then to the Chestnuts in Middle Lane, later replaced by Chestnut Court. (fn. 28)"

If you go back to the 1881 Census ................... the Headmaster is shown as Thomas Knight, wife Ellen, and several children.


Obviously the same school.

genichild .................

I don't know which site you are suing for your census information, but if you look at the image, it is perfectly obvious that James Child is working at Crouch End School, and that it is by no means a pauper school!!

It is next to Crouch Hall

There is a Classical Professor (ie, Latin and Greek), born in Wales, and a French Professor (born in France)

The boys are all shown as Boarders ......... most are from southern England, but there is one boy from Glasgow.


In no way does this school fit the parameters of a pauper school!


Don't forget, children went out to work in those days at the age of 12 or 13.

James Child probably had a decent job, lived in, and got all his meals.


Googling Crouch End School 1880 produced these little tidbits from a history of the area .......................

"Crouch End or Hornsey Academy was opened by John Yeo in 1686. Crouch End school was said to be nearly 200 years old in 1872 but the site was sold to the Imperial Property Investment Co. in 1882. The original school building stood on the corner of Park Road and was described as in the Elizabethan style in 1844. This three-storeyed, weather boarded house was demolished in 1882."

and ...............

"Site of Crouch Hall. This was a house built around 1820 which stood in the area where the clock tower stands at the crossroads today – but on the west side of the road. In 1847 it was the home of an iron master, William Bird. It was demolished in 1888."

Crouch End School is mentioned here - it might help to find what sort of school it was:-

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22531

Kath. x

By sheer coincidence, when searching for the eldest son of this family,James Child, in the 1881 Census, he is listed as a Domestic servant aged 16 at Crouch End School, Hornsey, Middlesex. There are 23 boarders,boys aged between 6 and 14. Was this school also a pauper school?

Thank you for your prompt replies,it seems that pauper schools and charity training for domestic service were the only options for working-class, large families when the bread-winner died.

A list of Victorian charities on this link:
http://www.victorianlondon.org/dickens/dickens-charities.htm

describes it thus

"GIRLS' HOME, Hon.. Sec., 22 & 41, Charlotte-street, Portland-place. Girls not convicted of crime "

(That actually was the name of the institution)

Always worth googling ......

1891 census transcription details for: St Pancras Schools, Leavesden Watford

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12
Piece: 1120
Folio: 90
Page: 6
Reg. District: Watford
Sub District: Watford
Parish: Watford
Enum. District: 19
Ecclesiastical District: All Saints Leavesden
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Watford, Leavesden
County: Hertfordshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
CHILD, Charles School Inmate Single M 11 1880 Islington, London

Hand written note added to front page of Enumeration book says that from 1st May 1898 the sub district is Rickmansworth

See the following from google

The Workhouse in St Pancras, London: Middlesex
www.workhouses.org.uk/StPancras/?
St Pancras Industrial Schools, Leavesden. In 1868, the St Pancras Guardians embarked on the erection of a new industrial school for pauper children in the ...

2 ancestors of my husband are listed as above. Sarah Child aged 15 is described as an inmate of 41 Charlotte St. Marylebone, London, which is an institution for girls in training for domestic service.How do I find the name of this institution? the Census record ref.is RG12/91. Her brother Charles Child aged 11 is listed as a School inmate in Watford Herts.the census record ref.is RG12/1120. The family seem to think that some of the children went to Dr.Barnardo's when their father died.