Genealogy Chat

Two Simeon Wines were born in Somerset and Baptised in South Petherton.
Simeon, born 1810 to Grace Hutchins and John Wines. Simeon, born 1812 to James Wines and Rebecca Vagg. Family trees vary about who was sent to Tasmania and what happened to the other Simeon - any ideas? :-S

Hi Jennifer - can you find a Simeon Wines on later English census?

is this one of them


England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892 about Simeon Wines
Name: Simeon Wines
Date of Trial: Lent 1832
Trial Year: 1832
Location of Trial: Somerset, England
Sentence: Transportation
Crime: See Image
Date of Execution or Release: See Image



UK, Prison Hulk Registers and Letter Books, 1802-1849 about Simeon Wines
Name: Simeon Wines
Age: 18
Ship: Captivity
Place Moored: Woolwich and Devonport
Date Convicted: 29 Mar 1832
Place Convicted: Taunton

Hi

Simeon is a common name in the Wines family especially in the first half of the 19 th century. It is still not clear which Simeon he is. Any more evidence on parentage??

Jennifer :-|

Simon Wines, "Australia, Marriages, 1810-1980"
Name: Simon Wines
Birth Date: 1814
Birthplace:
Age: 36
Spouse's Name: Ellen Wilson
Spouse's Birth Date: 1833
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age: 17
Event Date: 30 Nov 1850
Event Place: Avoca Tasmania, Australia
Father's Name:
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name:
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status:
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M31046-5
System Origin: Australia
GS Film number: 1368289
Reference ID:
Sources


Citing this Record

the two baptisims

Simeon Wines

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

birth: July 1812
christening: 18 February 1815 MR HARDMANS CHAPEL OR ROUND WELL STREET INDEPENDENS,SOUTH PETHERTON,SOMERSET,ENGLAND

father: James Wines
mother: Rebekah

Simeon Wines

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

christening: 29 April 1810 South Petherton, Somerset, England
residence: South Petherton, Somerset, England

father: John Wines
mother: Grace

a death record

Name: Simeon Wines
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 24 Mar 1852
Burial Place: South Petherton, Somerset, England
Death Date:
Death Place:
Age:
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Occupation:
Race:
Marital Status:
Spouse's Name:
Father's Name:
Father's Birthplace:
Mother's Name:
Mother's Birthplace:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I07999-6
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1526710
Reference ID: Item 1 p15 n120

Deaths Mar 1852 (>99%)
WINES Simeon Yeovil 5c 372

the death cert will give you his age

maddie

this is from the family search site


Simeon /Wines/
6 July 1812 - 4 September 1879

View Individual Summary




Simeon /Wines/
birth: 6 July 1812
South Petherton, Somereset, England
death: 4 September 1879
Falmouth, Tasmania, Australia
more

spouse:
Ellen /Wilson/
birth: about 1833
marriage: 30 November 1850
death:




James /Wines/
birth: 9 March 1762
Kingsbury Episcopi, Somerset, England
death: about 1 February 1826
South Petherton, Somerset, , England
Rebecca /Vagg/
birth: about 1778
Somerset, England
death: about 6 March 1860
South Petherton, Somereset, England





Additional Information for Simeon /Wines/
Notes (7)

About Simeon WINES (1812 - 1879)
http://trees.ancestry.com/rd?f=document&guid=333be408-188b-4af2-b223-02b365466ec7&tid=1270964&pid=5391

SImeon (Simon) WINES & Ellen WILSON - Marriage Record
http://trees.ancestry.com/rd?f=image&guid=43f19722-103d-4634-9f27-4cbd0a7c62f8&tid=1270964&pid=5391

Simeon WINES - Conditional Pardon Details
http://trees.ancestry.com/rd?f=image&guid=4e47d044-1391-4a84-b320-5287ac94931c&tid=1270964&pid=5391

Simeon Wines description
http://trees.ancestry.com/rd?f=image&guid=9211c6dd-532e-412e-a813-fa27dd21aed1&tid=1270964&pid=5391

Description: I.G.I.

Description: I.G.I. - see chr. citation

SImeon (Simon) WINES & Ellen WILSON - Marriage Record
http://trees.ancestry.com/rd?f=image&guid=43f19722-103d-4634-9f27-4cbd0a7c62f8&tid=1270964&pid=5391

Sources (3)

England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892 Ancestry.com
Australian Convict Transportation Registers – Other Fleets & Ships, 1791-1868 Ancestry.com
: International Genealogical index

Citing This Record
"Pedigree Resource File," database, FamilySearch (http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/395W-9WS : accessed 2013-11-30), entry for Simeon /Wines/.
Submission

submission id:MMDZ-GYP
contributor: date:20 April 2013
contributor: date:20 April 2013
contributor: date:20 April 2013
contributor: date:20 April 2013
person count:9978

Convict Details
Wines, Simeon
Convict No: 77821
Extra Identifier:
SEE Surname:
SEE Given Names:
Voyage Ship: Circassian
Voyage No: 102
Arrival Date: 15 Feb 1833
Departure Date: 14 Oct 1832
Departure Port: Plymouth
Conduct Record: CON31/1/46
Muster Roll:
Appropriation List: CON27/1/6, CSO1/1/642 14425
Other Records:
Indent:
Description List: CON18/1/5 p102
Remarks:

(1852 Burial)

County Somerset
Place South Petherton
Church Ss Peter and Paul
RegisterNumber
BurialDate 24 Mar 1852
Forename Simeon
Relationship
Rel1MaleForename
Rel1FemaleForename
Rel1Surname
Surname WINES
Age 59
Abode South Petherton


http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

Chris :)

edits (a google search of simeon wines petherton brings quite a few results)

Thank you all for your help. I am overwhelmed with detail but the aqes in the later documents do not even come close to that of John and Grace's son (1810) or James and Rebeka's (1812), both in South Petherton birth/baptism records. I am still not sure from the dates of events and death, which Simeon went to Tasmania.

Jennifer :-| :-|

just a thought, the one married in Tasmania gives date of birth as 1814, the Simeon born to James and Rebekah was born1812 but baptised in 1815, so possibly he thought born 1814.
Not proof i'm afraid

Maddie

Thanks for the thought concerning the age in the Tasmanian marriage. But there is a death in Tasmania in 1879 stating an age of 69, suggesting born 1810 for the birth.

Somewhere there must be an answer otherwise many of the family trees have the wrong descendents for their relatives accordng to whether their early roots are derived from James and Rebekah or John and Grace. This is especially true for the family trees starting with Simeon Wines in Australia.

Jennifer

I know this doesn't answer your question, but it is a well written account of Simeon's story. You may already have seen this.

http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/10421/20041220-0000/www.firstfamilies2001.net.au/firstfamily8cdf.html?id=Wines150997457

Many thanks for the references. I guess the whole picture is in the last one. It seems that at this time some people could not write or remember dates of birth etc. Before 1837 this can present a great many problems.

Thanks to everyone for their help :-) :-)

Looks like the Simeon born 1812 and his sister were baptised on the same day.

Search performed in: BAPTISMS for Surname = Wines Forename = Rebekah County = Somerset

2 matches were found for this query


1 Baptisms 18 Feb 1815 WINES Simeon Somerset South Petherton Father Surname
2 Baptisms 18 Feb 1815 WINES Susanah Somerset South Petherton Father Surname

These baptisms have father James and mother Rebecca.

Baptisms 21 Sep 1806 WINES James Somerset South Petherton Father Surname
Baptisms 03 Apr 1808 WINES John Somerset South Petherton Father Surname
Baptisms 02 Sep 1810 WINES Sarah Somerset South Petherton Father Surname
Baptisms 01 Oct 1817 WINES Jacob Somerset South Petherton Father Surname
Baptisms 30 May 1824 WINES William Somerset South Petherton Father Surname
Baptisms 06 Nov 1820 WINES William Somerset South Petherton Father Surname



John and Grace's children


1 Baptisms 05 Jan 1792 WINES Mary Somerset Chard Father Surname
2 Baptisms 30 Jan 1791 WINES George Somerset South Petherton Father Surname
3 Baptisms 21 May 1797 WINES George Somerset South Petherton Father Surname
4 Baptisms 24 Mar 1799 WINES John Somerset South Petherton Father Surname
5 Baptisms 28 Jun 1801 WINES Joseph Somerset South Petherton Father Surname
6 Baptisms 29 May 1803 WINES Phebe Somerset South Petherton Father Surname
7 Baptisms 11 Aug 1805 WINES Hannah Somerset South Petherton Father Surname
8 Baptisms 08 Nov 1807 WINES Hannah Somerset South Petherton Father Surname
9 Baptisms 29 Mar 1810 WINES Simeon Somerset South Petherton Father Surname



Rebecca is widowed in 1851

Name: Rebecca Wines
Age: 73
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1778
Relation: Head
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: South Petherton, Somerset, England

Civil Parish: South Petherton
Ecclesiastical parish: Bath and Wells
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View Image

Registration District: Yeovil
Sub-registration District: Coker
ED, institution, or vessel: 4c
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 60
Piece: 1929
Folio: 347
Page Number: 14
Household Members:
Name Age
Rebecca Wines 73
John Ireland 42 Widower, son-in-law
George Ireland 13
Simon Ireland 11
Sealy Ireland 8
John Ireland 4


James and Rebekah's marriage

County Somerset
Place South Petherton
Church Ss Peter & Paul
RegisterNumber
MarriageDate 14 Feb 1806
GroomForename James
GroomSurname WINES
BrideForename Rebecca
BrideSurname VAGG

many thanks for all the help. It will take days to sort out!

Jennifer :-)