Genealogy Chat

Hi i have been trying to get info on Michael Patrick Murphy a Sergeant in
the Royal Engineers . Service No 1877468. Died in Germany in 06/ 07/ 1946
buried in Hanover War Cemetery.
He was my wife's farther she was 3 months old when he died.
Thank you Colin.

I THINK as his next of kin!!!! she can apply for his army records I think they cost about £30 .....but lots of peeps on here have done it so will help your more


What other info do you want?

Hi thank you for reply . I will apply for army records .We would like to know
how he died.
Regards CDU

you must look into the details as if your wife isnt next of kin by birth they may not issue them to you

He must have been on war service still as he is listed on the CWGC site

MURPHY, MICHAEL

Rank:
Serjeant
Service No:
1877468
Date of Death:
06/07/1946
Age:
26
Regiment/Service:
Royal Engineers

624 Field Park Coy.
Grave Reference
14. G. 11.
Cemetery
HANOVER WAR CEMETERY
Additional Information:
Husband of Margaret M. M. Murphy, of Hampstead, London.

You don't need to be next of kin to apply for his service record

This link contains everything you need to know and has the forms required in order to apply for his records

see https://www.gov.uk/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records

Roy

You should be able to order the death certificate using the details below from
http://www.gro.gov.uk/GRO/content/certificates/default.asp

Armed Forces registration event: Death

Name: MURPHY, Michale
Unit: Royal Engineers
Rank: Sergeant
Number: 1877468
Year: 1946
Volume: 10
Page: 264
Record source: GRO War Death Army Other Ranks (1939 to 1948)

You should enter details as shown

It's worth noting that as he died in service a death certificate is not required in order to apply for his service record

Roy

CDU wants to know cause of death, (not obvious from first post) which will be on death certificate. So Service Records not required for that detail but may obviously give much more info about Michael in the long run. Death certificate will arrive within a few days of ordering and cost £9.25, Service records I understand take months to arrive.

Stuart, I beg to differ,

Death certificates for service personnel who died in conflict do NOT give "much more info"

His death cert will give date and location of death, that doesn't mean actual location, it could just say "western europe"

cause of death will simply be one of several such as, died as a result of enemy action or killed in action, or accident, and possibly presumed dead plus several other discriptions but nothing specific,

Edit, As his death was in 1946 and the war ended in 1945 it's possible his death was due to an "Accident" ?

Although it may not give much info it's still worth having the death cert in relation to documentary evidence in support of your family tree

Roy

This may be relevant?

HANOVER WAR CEMETERY

Historical Information

Many of the graves in Hanover War Cemetery were brought in from prisoner of war camp cemeteries, small German cemeteries and from isolated positions in the surrounding country.

The cemetery contains 2,407 Commonwealth burials of the Second World War, 62 of them unidentified. There are also 39 non-war burials and 10 war graves of other nationalities, most of them Polish.

Roy

The cause of death will be on the death cert - not necessarily on the service records.

They are likely just to say 'deceased' and the date.

Porkie Pie - I did not suggest that

Death certificates for service personnel who died in conflict do NOT give "much more info" than Service records

What I said was

CDU wants to know cause of death, (not obvious from first post) which will be on death certificate. So Service Records not required for that detail but may obviously give much more info about Michael in the long run. Death certificate will arrive within a few days of ordering and cost £9.25, Service records I understand take months to arrive.

ie Service records were not required to ascertain the cause of death, that would be found on the death certificate BUT the Service Records may give "much more info" in the long run about Michael generally.

Stuart, And i never said you did, Edit, I was refering to death certificates NOT having more info
Both the service record and the death cert will not answer the question asked,

questions asked
Hi i have been trying to get info on Michael Patrick Murphy

CDU did NOT ask for the cause of death he said "We would like to know
how he died"

Quote, So Service Records not required for that detail but may obviously give much more info about Michael in the long run"

Most service records when it comes to cause of death say the same thing as on the death certs, Most likely a simple "died of wounds" thats because the death and service records are compiled from the same documentation "war returns"

See mgnv's post on this thread re war returns for deaths

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/military_chat/thread/1338661


The point is the death cert will not tell CDU how he died ie the circumstances and nether will his service records,

The death cert as indicated in my earlier post is unlikely to be specific as to cause of death and will only give a brief discription as i also said before the only exeption to that would be due to his death being in 1946 but as he is listed as a war death that's unlikely

also as stated above,... Although it may not give much info it's still worth having the death cert in relation to documentary evidence in support of your family tree


Roy