Genealogy Chat

Hi

John Caddell McDonald 6.7.1898 from Perth (mother Catherine McDonald and sister Ann Jean Urquhart c1897)

Changed name to John Gardiner when he was about 14 years old, when he joined the Army and he was required to be 18! He left Scotland and ended up in Essex, but I don't know when this transition was made.

As Ancestry.com have only recently put Scottish census on their website, I am a bit "green" as to how to go about looking for a Scottish ancestor outside of Ancestry.com

It has proved a bit of a dilema as his mother doesn't appear to be married (according to John's birth details) He had a sister named Ann Jean Urquhart who I also believe to be illegitimate.
Relatives believe that Catherine was a servant for the Caddells (Perth farmers) and that she was taken advantage of (maybe twice!)

Can anyone give me any hints on what is available (preferrably free!) or if not which are the best sites for researching Scottish ancestors please?

I have birth details for John Caddell McDonald, but very limited information is given, which I understand is unusual for Scottish birth details. Maybe because his mother Catherine wasn't married.

Can a proper copy of birth certificate be obtained please? I only have hand written details of his date of birth and the address he was living at (119 South Street, Perth) and mother's name Catherine McDonald, servant.

Any assistance would be gratefully appreciated as I have really stumbled against a brick wall.

I cannot find the family on 1901 Census, is 1911 available?

I would like to thank anyone reading this and for any replies I may have regarding this in advance, as I don't have much free time for my obsession lately and may not get back too quickly.

Thank you!

Dee

Best site is Scotland's People http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ It's not free but credits are reasonably priced. That's also the only site you'll get the Scottish 1911 census.

Older records quite good on FamilySearch https://familysearch.org/ (Free)

Thank you Marie CelesteWill give it a go
Dee

You can look at the image of the record, on ScotlandsPeople, (for 5 credits, plus one to find the transcription first).

Here's the transcription. The image doesn't say any more than you already know.
Catherine signs her name Kate McDonald. Definitely not married - birth record specifies "illegitimate".
Address 199 South Street, not 119.

1898 MCDONALD JOHN CADDELL M PERTH /PERTH 387/00 0465

I'll send you the image by PM.

I don't see the sister's birth record on SP. Was she also born in Perth? Where did you find her name?
Is Urquhart her surname or a middle name?

There's this one, but wildly wrong DOB, and not Perth:

1871 URQUHART ANN JEAN F LONGSIDE /ABERDEEN 218/00 0124

EDIT: It's not her. This one's mother was Mary Urquhart nee Wisely, wife of Alexander Urquhart.

Can I ask how you know about Ann Jean Urquhart please?

EDIT Sorry ArgyllGran, I see you are also wondering about the above.

A long shot:


1901 Scotland Census about John Caddell
Name: John Caddell
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1899
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: William Turner - no, this is a mistranscription.
Mother's name: Catherine Caddell
Gender: Male
Where born: Perth
Registration Number: 387
Registration district: Perth
Civil Parish: Perth
County: Perthshire
Address: 10 Paul St
ED: 7
Household schedule number: 15
LINE: 9
Roll: CSSCT1901_124
Household Members:
Name Age
William Turner 55 (he's actually in a different household - mistranscribed)
Catherine Caddell 32 - married, dye worker, spoke Gaelic & English, born Invernes-shire (can't read the name of the town/village - Killervair, it looks like, but there's no such place)
John Caddell 2 - born Perth

No husband listed in the household, so maybe she wasn't actually married (if this is her) but just took John's father's surname.

An earlier discussion re John Caddell McDonald and Catherine:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/john%20cadell%20macdonald_perth,%20scotland/thread/1113530

Did you get anywhere with your search for Catherine in your earlier thread, Dee? I see someone else, on that thread, noted the 1901 Caddell census record which I posted above.

That looks interesting. I had been looking at the Caddels in 1901.

1901 census transcription details for: Killavoulin Farm, Moulin
Print Close

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13
Piece: 384
Folio: 1
Page: 3
Reg. District: Moulin
Sub District:
Parish: Moulin
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District: Moulin
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Killavoulin Farm, Moulin
County: Perthshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
CADDELL, John Head Single M 67 1834 Farmer
Moulin G & E, Perthshire
CADDELL, Jane Sister Single F 59 1842 Housekeeper
Moulin G & E, Perthshire
MCRAW, Jane Servant Single F 55 1846 General Farm Servant
Moulin G & E, Perthshire
ANDERSON, James Servant Single M 25 1876 Ploughman
Omulree G & E, Perthshire
MCLEOD, Angus Servant Single M 17 1884 Ploughman
Uig G & E, Invernessshire
MACDONALD, Margaret Servant Single F 15 1886 General Farm Servant
Kilmun G & E, Invernessshire (probably Kilmuir)

Interesting, alviegal -

Killavoulin sems very much like the Killervair mentioned in 1901. Perhaps she said she was from Inverness-shire, but also Killavoulin.

EDIT:
Or, actually, Killervair/Killerwuir could be Kilmuir, in which case Margaret could be her sister.

Kilmuir pronounced in a strong Gaelic / Highland accent, plus bad handwriting of "Killermuir", could turn out as Killerwuir, which is what the 1901 transcription says it is.

And, without looking back at the other thread, I think there's mention of a possible sister Margaret there.

I think we're duplicating research to some extent.

Yes, just seen that I contributed to that thread as well. Sigh...!

I'm away to bed now. Night.

Hi

Thank you for all your hard work!

I know that Ann Jean Urquhart was John's sister, my late mother-in-law knew her well. I assume that the name Urquhart was due to her father. On her marriage certificate it stated her father's name was William Urqhuart. I have never found a birth cert. I only assume Ann(ie) was from Perth because she was only about a year or so older than John, and he was born in Perth.

I did find an Ann Jean Urquhart who died, so that wasn't the same one, because my one married and lived in London (her husband worked at the Ritz!) and was Swiss.

You asked if I got anywhere with my earlier thread, well not really. Nothing is very concrete and doesn't help me go back any further. Although there are similarities, I am not certain. John Caddell McDonald, must have achieved his name through the father, and I know he and his sister were illegitimate as my mother-in-law confirmed.

Although I have the birth record, can I obtain a birth certificate because I understand Scottish birth certs give so much more information and may help with his mother Catherine?

Thank you all for your time and effort, much appreciated. I must say, I feel I am going round in circles with this one.

I think my best bet is to view 1911 Census on Scottish People.

Thanks again.

Kind regards

Dee

You can order an extract :
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/famrec/bdm.html

or through ScotlandsPeople (register, sign on, buy credits, find the record I posted above, click "order" at the end of the listing, and follow the instructions).

But it won't give you any more detail than already posted, or as on the image which I hope I've managed to send you .