Genealogy Chat

Hi,

I wonder if anyone can help me please. I am looking for details about my great grandfather. He was the father of my Grandmother on my mother's side. My grandmother's maiden name was Taylor - which by rights you'd assume that my great grandfather had the surname of Taylor. BUT. This was not his original surname.

His original name was Henry James Otjen born approximately 1885. I managed to find the marriage record on GenesReunited. He married my great grandmother who was Ivy M L Callaby (born 1900). When they got married, at some point, they changed their name to Taylor. They both became Henry James Taylor and Ivy M L Taylor. According to my great aunt (my Granny's sister), she said there was a big family fall out and he cut contact with his family. I'm guessing that I don't stand a chance in finding out the reason for this. I also found a death record for Henry James Taylor in 1968 (Oxford) but I am intrigued to know if the name change from Otjen to Taylor would be documented anywhere?

I have attempted to order the birth certificate of Henry James Otjen as I found out from the birth record where he was born (London Camberwell District I think it was) from the General Register Office at a bit of a gamble and cost. Do you think they will be able to find it? Does anyone know if the name change would be documented anywhere and if so, how would I find out?

Any ideas would be much appreciated.

Ali

:-)

This is the only one showing on FreeBMD - a lot earlier than you say:

Births Sep 1858 (>99%)
Otjen Henry James Lambeth 1d 319

Or there's this one:

Births Sep 1868 (>99%)
OTJEN Henry St. Giles 1b 471

Hi,
Thanks for this. I already found the birth record and marriage record. I am wondering about the name change,from Otjen to Taylor.
I found Henry James Otjen. Birth and marriage.
Thanks
Ali :-)

You say you found the birth record - if you quoted the volume and page numbers, then yes, they'll be able to find it.

EDIT: I seem to have misunderstood. In your original post you said,

"I have attempted to order the birth certificate of Henry James Otjen as I found out from the birth record where he was born (London Camberwell District I think it was) from the General Register Office at a bit of a gamble and cost. Do you think they will be able to find it? "


Re finding a record of change of name, perhaps this will help:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/change-of-name.htm

(assuming they changed their name officially)

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Mar 1885 (>99%)
Otien Henry James Camberwell 1d 939

wonder if he married twice

Marriages Dec 1917 (>99%)
Otjen Henry J Callaby Camberwell 1d 1476


Marriages Dec 1920 (>99%)
Otjen Henry J Oldham Edmonton 3a 1297

Thanks and no he def didn't marry twice. I know that already.
Thanks for all the replies :-)

A couple of things that may interest you, Allison,but maybe unrelated.?

Britishnews papers.with ref to a Mr Otjen of Islington in 1865.

also from the National Archives.

Land Registry notice 1 st March 1938,for.



E L Otjen of Crescent Lodge.Crescent Drive ,Woodingdean.Brighton.made notice to register the land at that address.

Britishnewspapers are searchable on this site,


Deed Poll registers of name changes are only searchable at the National Archives (Kew)in person or hired researcher.

Hi Kay
Thanks so much for your message. I know he was born in 1885 in London. I wonder if this might be relatives of his though, who knows. I am waiting for his birth certificate to arrive in the post. Then I may find the names of his parents. I wish I knew the reason he fell out with his family. Thanks for all the help!
Ali :-)

The 1920 marriage has a declared age of 61 - bc1859. Haringey came under the Edmonton reg district

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Henry James Otjen
Name: Henry James Otjen (bachelor & a Grocer)
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Age: 61
Spouse Name: Emily Louise Oldham
Spouse Age: 29
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 14 Dec 1920
Parish: Stamford Hill St John, Vartry Road
Borough: Haringey
Father Name: George Otjen - Brass finisher (deceased)
Spouse Father: Henry Joseph Oldham - Hat band cutter
Register Type: Parish Register

As regards the 1917 marriage, Ancestry links the wife's name to this death record. It would seem that they both died in Oxford reg.

England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007 about Ivy Maud L Taylor
Name: Ivy Maud L Taylor
Birth Date: 29 Aug 1900
Date of Registration: Jul 1984
Age at Death: 83
Registration district: Oxford
Inferred County: Oxfordshire
Volume: 20
Page: 2224

One reason for the name change could be in his or his parents nationality.

Does it say on any early census details that he was not born in the UK? Or if his parents were from overseas.

We know from your post that he was born around the time of WW1 and many foreigner anglicised or changed their names.

Even the Sax-Coburg Gothas changed their name to Windsor!!!!

Hi, thanks for the reply!
I looked on his birth record on GenesReunited, and it says he was born in the Camberwell District of London. I have ordered his birth certificate from the General Register Office and am hoping that when I receive this (if it's correct) that it might reveal some details about his parents because at this stage, no one in my family know their names. My grandmother isn't around anymore to ask, and I am a bit wary of asking my 91 year old great aunt! My family and I are wondering if the surname Otjen was German or something. We know that he had a big falling out with his family and also wonder if this had anything to do with his decision to change his surname.
It's all quite interesting!
Ali :-)

If he was born ca 1859, then this looks as though it could be Henry James in 1871


1871 Census

Name: Henry James Otjen
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George Thomas Otjen
Mother's name: Martha Otjen
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 300
Piece: 736
Folio: 87
Page Number: 51

George Thomas Otjen 55 b.ca 1816, Shadwell, Iron Dealer
Martha Otjen 54 b.ca 1817, Somers Town, Middlesex
George Edward Otjen 31 b.ca 1840, Holloway, Son
Elizabeth Mary Otjen 16 b.ca 1855, Lambeth, Surrey
William Lewin Otjen 15 b.ca 1876, Lambeth
Henry James Otjen 13
Henry Robert Lee 1 b.ca 1870, Lambeth, Grandson

Address:- 217 Albany Road

Thank you for the reply that's really kind. I know my great grandfather was born in 1885 so these may be relatives of his? I am waiting for his birth certificate so when I get this i will see if there are matches? :-)

Alison


We seem to have a problem here.


ie, you are very clearly saying that your grandmother was Ivy M L Callaby, and that she married Henry James Otjen in 1917.


I suggest that the first certificate you should buy, if you have not already done so, is their marriage certificate .....................


this will tell you how old Henry is, the name of his father, his occupation, etc.




None of us seem to be able to find a Henry James Otjen born in 1885.


What documentary evidence do you have that your Henry James was born in 1885?

Hello,
Well I know that he died in Oxford because thats where my family lived. It's my great grandmother Ivy M L Callaby that was married to him. So, I searched for a death record and found that:

Henry James Taylor died in 1968, age 82, in Quarter 1 of that year, in Oxford.

I know that my great grandmother Ivy M L Callaby was born in 1900 so I used that as a means of searching for her marriage record and found on here:
Ivy M L Callaby was married in 1917 in Camberwell district of London in Quarter 4, spouse name Otjen.

So, 1968 - 82 gives me the approx year of birth for Henry Otjen which was 1886.

Therefore, I searched for the birth of Henry James Otjen in 1886 and the closest match was in 1885 in London, Camberwell District.

That's the evidence that I have used to deduce his year of birth. I have already ordered his birth certificate based on this information and am waiting for it to arrive in the post. I hope it arrives soon as I ordered it around the 20th April or thereabouts.

Thanks for the replies, I really appreciate everyone's help and suggestions :-)

Ali

you would get a much better idea of his age if you got the marriage certificate


Remember that much of the information on a death certificate is "hearsay", ie, only what the informant knows ............... and that might not be true!


The only information on a death certificate that is sure to be accurate is ..............

....... date and place of death

....... name and address of doctor

....... name of coroner, if one is involved.


Everything else is hearsay, even if the informant is a member of the family.



Have you bought the death certificate to see who the informant was??

No not yet. Not got his death certificate. I wonder if my great aunt has a copy but I don't know if I dare ask her as it was her Dad. Perhaps I should get the marriage cert. the only thing is we never knew the name of Ivy Callaby's Dad as she was illegitimate and no one was told. All we knew was that he was an Italian Swiss Chef or something. I have another certificate I want to order for another relative I'm searching for info about so I may order the others with that. It's going to get expensive...! :-)