Genealogy Chat

Does anyone have any knowledge of understanding Records from Russia (now latvia) or would anyone like to help me make educated guesses
I have the English translation of some Death records but don't have the titles for the columns so there is some confusion ;


1st column is surname +given name FELLMAN/FELDMAN, Mottel

2nd column gives hyphenated first names Leizer-Mendel
3rd column is place ; Griva
4th column 1st line is a date 15/9/1880 [15 Kislev]
2nd line is number 2
3rd line just punctuation mark ?
5th column also has 3 lines places Jakobstadt
Fridrikhshtat
Courland
6th column is place Jakobstadt/Jakobpils
date 1884
letter + number M9
last column ref numbers LVVA/5024/1/66
number 11

logical supposition is that 2nd column is father's name ;and the 3rd column could be place of birth, 5th place of death (jakobstadt is in the region of Courland.Fridrikshstat could be the admin district .

column 4 is confusing ; I suppose its date of death (+ birthdate not given .)
. what do the number +word in square brackets underneath mean?
other family members records have [22 Tishri] and [ 27Heshvan].
+ what's the number below for FellmanDvora its 11/2 and for Felman Gesa-Eida its 38
I assumed the M9 in column 6 means male aged 9
Dvora's record has F16 and Gesa-eida has F14

what do you think ?

my sister's thread into great grandfather George Jacob Fellman's Naturalisation is http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1324681

Could Felman.Gesa-Eda be leizer-Mendel's wife and 38 (4th column) be her age ?

I wondered about the 2nd column could be name of informant ...but then it would include his surname .
There are actually 3 rows on that column Dvora's records has;
Leizer-Mendel ,son of Leib on the top row , - - on 2nd row and nothing on 3rd row .
Mottle has Mendel-leizer on top row and dashes on 2nd row
Gesa-Eida has - on top row
- - on 2nd row
and Leizer-Mendel on 3rd row

Could that be significant ...could the rows be for father's name .mother's name ,spouses name respectively ? Hope someone on here has some knowledge of how these records are recorded .

15 Kislev refers to the Jewish calender and is from November to December,,,,,15 Kislev therefore is 15 November,
as with the other bracketed details all are worked from the Jewish religious calender.

Heshvan--- is October to November .

Thanks for that information Kay ;

so... can 27 heshvan be translated directly as 27th October ?

I am learning a little about the Jewish religion as I find out more of my great-grandfather's story .

Brigid

try Googling Jewish religious calendar ............... there should be a site that gives the months

Latvia SIG - Archival Resources - JewishGen

http://www.jewishgen.org/latvia/Contacting_Latvian_StateHA.html

(above looks useful)

Chris :)

spellings vary but they are lunar months Tishri is given as first month but corresponds to sept/oct,
(C)heshvan is the 2nd ,and Kislev the 3rd ....

The Jewish gen site has interesting reading but i can't afford to apply for more documents and subsequent translations as I don't speak Russian or Hebrew ..

I'd like to know the names of the other siblings who were still alive in 1920 (in GB or USA) but can't get birth documentation .

The site says only death certs are documented +
I already know the names of the 3 deceased siblings but would like to know which of these numbers is their ages ....

Don't assume the 6th column F and M numbers are age and sex

It doesn't make sense if Dvora was 16 in 1880 she'd be born in 1864 which seems unlikely as according to his hospital records 1920 great grandfather George-Jacob was born in 1870 and the 2nd of 10 children (8 living) .
The only sibling we know about is Rebecca Block born about 1871

Their father Mendel was only 40 in the 1891 census (altho they didn't get the gender right on that one ).

the number in 4th column after date of Dvora's death could mean one and a half yrs old so born in 1878/79 .

That would mean Mottel was also a toddler at death born 1882 ish
Is Mottel a boy's name ??

That would mean Gesa-Eida was indeed the mother ;died aged 38 , b1850 (worn out by 10 children ?)
Rebecca's first daughter was named Geiss-Ada (various spellings on census)
naming 1st born daughter after maternal grandma maybe traditional as rebecca's first born son was named after paternal grandfather.

ON Rebecca's scottish death cert her mother's name is given as Edith (anglicisation of Eida ?)
George jacob came to GB in 1891 he was with his father in Manchester in 1891 census
Rebecca married Benjamin Bloch in Manchester in 1994 but I didn't find her on 1891 census
we can't find what happened to the younger siblings (and 1 older one) without knowing their names .

http://www.kindredtrails.com/latvia.html

a good site to have a look though.

Thanks Kay ; i've had a quick look thru will look again after work .
Do you have any connections to Latvia ??

Ps do you have any opinions on which numbers are the most likely to be ages on the documents

You might find this forum useful for info and any questions you have......

http://genforum.genealogy.com/latvia/

and this site...

http://www.celmina.com/genealogy/2012/05/latvian-genealogy-primer-part-1/
and
http://www.celmina.com/genealogy/2012/05/latvian-genealogy-primer-part-2/

http://www.labrit.co.uk/page13.htm


There is a whole list of Latvian uk associations on the above link.

My friends late father was a POW and from nr Riga,so unfortunally cant make enquiries for you.

Thanks karen ;
the genforum.genealogy is now a read only site not just for Latvia ..it's a pity because their question + answer were about specific families

lots of interesting reading here ; I'm also looking up Russia because at the time of my ancestors births late 1800's Jakoplils in Courland/Kurland would have been part of Russia.

Thanks Kay I may try 1 of those phone numbers in Wales or London. Tho I think the site is mostly for recent Latvians in GB .or people going to latvia .couldn't see a historic society or a Jewish link but it could be there in Latvian .!