Genealogy Chat

Mgnv
Thank you so much for all your research. You are obviously quite an expert. It's hard to find information that you don't have to pay to see and when you are not sure what you are looking for that's not great. Interesting you were looking for Morning. I thought it might be Manning? If you have found a Morning living in Holland Landing that could be them. Will check out all your helpful links.
Again many thanks.
Jo
:-D

Re Joseph's aunt:

The Canadian census images are free and available (except for 1921) via:
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/census/Pages/census.aspx

Anyone can search Ancestry (or FMP) for free - it's just that without a sub, certain details are not readily available.
So for 1891, I got no Morning hit, so I went to:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=1274
I searched for Albert s/o Art* & Eliz* & got the following hits:

View Record Name Parent or spouse names Home in 1891 (Sub-District, District, Province) Birth Year Birthplace Relation View Images
View Record Albert Huggans Arthur,Elizabeth township, Halifax City, Nova Scotia abt 1877 location info
View Record Albert S Morency Arther,Elizabeth township, York North, Ontario abt 1876 location info
View Record Albert Raven John Arthur,Elizabeth township, York West, Ontario abt 1888 location info
View Record Albert Tomalty Arthur,Eliza township, Argenteuil, Quebec abt 1876 location info

It's only when I click on the "View Record" link or the image icon link that it invites me to subscribe - and I can back out of those pages.
Since Holland Landing is in the Northern part of York Co, and Morency and Morning have similar shapes as hand-written text, I looked up Albert Morency on the LAC site.
[Ancestry and LAC had a deal - details unknown - but my guess is Ancestry got exclusive rights to digitize and index the Canadian census for several years, and when the time was up, they turned over their images and indexes to LAC, who posted them on their site.]
Anyways, the main point is the identical nature of the indexes.


Here's 1871-1911:
Arthur & Elizabeth Morning are both on the 1921 census in Holland Landing, York Co ON


1911 Census of Canada
Home / 1911 / Ontario / York North / 35 Holland Landing / page 7
34 82 Morning Arthur Holland Landing M Head M Dec 1836 74
35 82 Morning Eliza ? F Wife M May 1847 64
36 82 Morning Albert M Son S Aug 1878 33
37 82 Morning Duglas M Son S Jun 1890 21
38 82 Morning Stanley M Son S Jul 1891 19
39 82 Morning Rubb M Son S Mar 1893 17
40 82 Sedore Bert F Servant S Sep 1891 19
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e002038221.pdf
Looks more like a gt aunt - they both immig 1865 - all kids pob = Ont


1901 Census of Canada Page Information
District: ON YORK (North/Nord) (#130)
Subdistrict: Holland Landing (Village) G Page 8-9
44 89 Morning Arthur M Head M Dec 25 1835 65
45 89 Morning Elizabeth F Wife M May 9 1843 57
46 89 Morning Albert M Son S Aug 2 1877 23
47 89 Morning Emma F Daughter S Dec 9 1879 21
48 89 Morning Edward M Son S Oct 22 1881 19
49 89 Morning Lillie F Daughter S Feb 18 1883 17
50 89 Morning Sidney M Son S Jan 22 1885 15
1 89 Morning May F Daughter S Jun 21 1889 13
2 89 Morning Douglas M Son S Jun 25 1889 11
3 89 Morning Stanley M Son S Jul 3 1891 9
4 89 Morning Ruby M Son S Mar 9 1893 7
http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1901/z/z003/pdf/z000118564.pdf
http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1901/z/z003/pdf/z000118565.pdf

1891 http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1891/pdf/30953_148182-00258.pdf

1881 http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e328/e008183930.pdf

1871 http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1871/pdf/4396618_00135.pdf
{NB Robt Jas a-3 b England, John a=5 b Quebec]


Free transcriptions are more of a problem - of course, you can do your own, but for people like me answering threads, it's too muxh work that you could do.

http://automatedgenealogy.com/census/index.html is handy for some years, but the transcriptions are of variable quality.
It's sometimes handy to look up one person at:
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=CANADA

The other aunt is not Ada Musgrove. She married Thomas John Wilson in 1896 had a family and died still in Northumberland age 43 in 1915.
Have got the other possible aunt, Elizabeth Musgrove as a shoe fitter living with her uncle and family in Wellinbborough, Northamptonshire in the 1881 census so working on finding her after that.
Jo :-)

Jacqueline
Thank you for that information. I had managed to find most on genes reunited searching the census and marriages. I have the older generations of the family going back to william Musgrove b 1796 it is the move of much of the family to Canada that has been more troublesome.
Never thought about them flying! Will write to Freda and ask her.
Have tracked the Aunt Mary Ann and her husband Robert Weddle Anderson from 1871 to their marriage in 1896 and can find them on the 1901 census still in Northumberland.
He died in Ontario in 1917 so they must have emigrated between 1901 and 1917.
Joseph Matthew Musgrove also emigrated to stay with an aunt in Ontario in 1923. It looks like her name is "Manning" on the documents, Lake View, Hollands Landing, Ontario.
As his father only had sisters and we know that Mary Ann is already there and married to Anderson it is likely that the Aunt Joseph went to stay with is either Elizabeth b 1863 or more likely, Ada b 1872. One of them may have married a "Manning" so will try that.

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Whitefield, Hepple Demesne, Rothbury, Northumberland, England


First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Josiah Musgrove Head Married Male 37 1844 Labourer Gen Stagsden, Bedfordshire, England Transcription
Mary A Musgrove Wife Married Female 33 1848 Lace Maker Bedfordshire, England Transcription
Ada A Musgrove Daughter Single Female 9 1872 Scholar Stagsden, Bedfordshire, England Transcription
Josiah Musgrove Son Single Male 8 1873 Scholar Stagsden, Bedfordshire, England Transcription
Mary A Musgrove Daughter Single Female 5 1876 Scholar Rothbury, Northumberland, England Transcription

Marriages Dec 1897 (>99%)

Hall Ada Gateshead 10a 1245
Musgrove Josiah Gateshead 10a 1245

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
19 Ridley Terrace Cambois Blyth Northumberland, Bedlington, Northumberland, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
Josiah Marriott Musgrove Head Married Male 38 1873 Stagsden Bedfordshire Shifter In Coal Mine Transcription
Ada Musgrove Wife Married Female 36 1875 Ingram Northumberland - Transcription
Evelyn Mary Musgrove Daughter - Female 12 1899 Stockfield Northld School Transcription
Joseph Matthew Musgrove Son - Male 8 1903 Sunderland Durham - Transcription
Mabel Alice Frederica Musgrove Daughter - Female 6 1905 Gateshead Durham

Marriages Jun 1921 (>99%)

Ford John H Musgrove Castle W. 10b 580
Musgrove Mabel F Ford Castle W. 10b 580

No record of emigration for Freda etc, so it must have been after 1960 when they moved to Canada...unless they went by air

That is the aunt. On the original documents ngnv sent me links to you could read the name Mary. Her father had a sister called Mary Ann Musgrove so was about to look for her.
Have just worked out that Freda was married in 1944 so will have moved to Canada as Freda Rout with husband Jeffrey C S Rout probably at the same time as her parents John Henry and Alice Mable Ford as they all lived in the same house in Toronto. They had no children and Freda is still,living in the same house.

Thank you so much. It is amazing to see the original documents. Freda will be so thrilled that I can put the pieces together with your help.
She emigrated to Canada with her parents John Henry Ford and Alice Mable Ford - known as Mable in what we now think was the mid 1950',s
Can you tell me where to search for them.
Thanks to everyone for your help.
Jo :-D

Could this be the aunt that Evelyn was going to join in Toronto?

Marriages Mar 1896 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ANDERSON Robert Weddle Castle W. 10b 391
Musgrove Mary Ann Castle W. 10b 391

He seems to have died in Toronto:


Ontario, Canada, Deaths, 1869-1938 and Deaths Overseas, 1939-1947 about Robert Weddle Anderson
Name: Robert Weddle Anderson
Gender: Male
Birth Year: abt 1865
Birth Place: England
Age at Death: 52
Death Date: 28 Jun 1917
Death Place: York, Ontario, Canada

Form 30A
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/microform/data2/dm10/d10/006003/t-15138/jpg/30927_2000915052-03395.jpg
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/microform/data2/dm10/d10/006003/t-15138/jpg/30927_2000915052-03394.jpg

http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/microform/data2/dm10/d10/006003/t-15138/jpg/30927_2000915052-03575.jpg
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/microform/data2/dm10/d10/006003/t-15138/jpg/30927_2000915052-03574.jpg


If you knew her aunt's forename, and she was in Canada on 1/6/1921, then anyone can search the 1921 census, and view images, but only via:
http://search.ancestry.ca/search/db.aspx?dbid=8991

*** EDIT ***
I *do* mean ancestry.ca - you must not let Ancestry change this to your local version of Ancestry.

Yes it is Freda! Freda Elizabeth Rout nee Ford. Her husband Jeffrey Claude Stuart Rout died in 2012 but Freda is still going strong at 93.

And yes I think Mabel used her second name rather than Alice as all the rest of the details are the same.

So thrilled to have everyone's help not very experienced at this but learning.

Thanks so much

Jo

It looks like Mabel might have prefered to use a middle name. This looks like her birth:-

First name(s) ALICE MABEL F
Last name MUSGROVE
Birth year 1905
Birth quarter 2
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District GATESHEAD
County Durham
Country England
Volume 10A
Page 1034

Kath. x

A photo of John Henry & Mabel's gravestone here:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=104516384

Would her name be Freda by any chance? If so a tree on Ancestry says that she died in Toronto. I guess they just assumed that at that age she must have expired.

I couldn't find a passenger list for the Fords.

That sounds like them. Amazed by the quick response and so much helpful information. I'm doing this for the daughter of Mable nee Musgrove and John Henry Ford who is still living in Toronto aged 93!
She will be thrilled.
Thank you so much.
Jo <3

There is this possible for the brother Joseph:-

First name(s) JOSEPH
Last name MUSGROVE
Gender Male
Age 20
Birth year 1903
Occupation FARMWORKER
Departure year 1923
Departure day 31
Departure month 3
Departure port LIVERPOOL
Destination port HALIFAX
Destination HALIFAX
Country CANADA
Destination country CANADA
Ship name ANDANIA
Ship official number 145934
Ship master's first name E T
Ship master's last name BRITTEN
Ship master's title CAPT
Shipping line CUNARD
City LIVERPOOL
Ship destination port NEW YORK
Ship destination country USA
Ship square feet 17599
Ship registered tonnage 8391
Number of passengers 819

Kath. x