Genealogy Chat

If someone gave birth to a stillborn child would they still be counted on the census forms when it says how many children born.

I have a few in my family they have 4 children born, 3 children still living.

I'm not sure so i thought i would ask.
Any help would be great.
Thanks so much.
Lorna

What does the heading say on the census page?

EDIT

I've just looked..................

It says 'Children born alive to present marriage'

So, factually, the answer is 'no', but there's no accounting for how people's minds work

This is the link to one of the census i am talking about Jacqueline.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002916572/

I've done a quick search to see if could find the other child born, but i'm
not having any luck.
Thanks for your help.

The Question posed was 'Children born alive' which doesn't take into account still births.
A child has to take a breath before it is acknowledged under both civil and religious law.

Look for a birth & death between John and Bridget

Thank you +++DetEcTive+++
I've looked on the irish find my past site and have found a death of a james born and died in 1908.
Not sure if this is the right one but it's a start.
Thank you so much for your help.

I assumed you meant the English or Welsh census

The question on the Irish 1911 is "Children born alive to present marriage" i.e., identical to England & Wales.

Thank you for the reply's, it has helped.

well sometimes folks didnt understand what they should fill in

I have seen some 1911 census where the dad named children born that had died pre the census , the enumerator has put a line through the names BUT fortunately the info could then be verified with the BMDS , This was for some of my family members who arsed about marrying cousins etc

So its really not set in stone !! its what the head of house thought they should be giving the info they had

Thanks so much Shirley, this has helped. gives me a lot ot think about,
Thanks for your help.

don't forget that stillborn children were not treated very well back in the day ....... and that's not that long ago.

Mothers were expected to forget about them, and get on with life.

Most babies were born at home, with a midwife, female family member or female neighbour helping, and very often the stillborn child was removed from the house before the mother, let alone the father, saw it.

The idea being that the child had not lived, and it was better for the mother "to get over it".


Stillborn children were not even registered until July 1st 1927




But, as Shirley said, what was entered on the 1911 census ........... and in fact on any census ............... is really only what the head of house thought they should be telling.

The only difference is that the Head of the house actually filled out those forms that we can now see, whereas earlier censuses were filled out by an enumerator who went door to door, being given the information by a member of the household (or a neighbour in some cases).




You haven't said what years the birth might have occurred in.

............. that could also affect whether a birth / death was registered.

Sylvia - the link takes you to an Irish 1911 census. It says they were married 5 years with 4 children born, 3 living.
The children listed are aged 4, 1 & 1 month. It's likely that the missing child was born between the elder 2 but died between census. Of course, there may have been additional miscarriages which weren't counted!

Thanks everyone, i have found out from the church baptism record,
that it was James Branigan born in 1908.
So i take he must of died as he is not on the 1911 census.
Then in 1915 they had another child they named James.

Thank you for all your help.

Sylvia - you're mistaken abt how the UK censuses were conducted. In all cases, a census form was dropped off a couple of days ahead of census day, and then collected the day after. It was checked over by the enumerator, and any missing info was inserted. When all the forms were gotten, the enumerator entered them in his summary book, and, in England and Wales thru 1901, the original forms were destroyed - they were not destroyed in Ireland 1901. So the difference you see between 1911 and the earlier censuses is a result of looking at different sorts of records, and nothing to do with the conduct of the census.


The procedure you describe was followed in Canada & the US. Here's a typical Canadian 1911 ED:

District: Assiniboia Enumeration District: 3
Townships 1, 2, 3 in range 34 west of the 1st M and Townships 1, 2, 3 in range 1 west of the 2nd M, including Glen Ewen Village

So this ED covered 6 township blocks - i.e., 216 sq miles (I've seen ones with over 1000 sq m). The reason for not doing things in the English way is obvious - most of the enumerator's time is spent travelling around his district, not in time spent getting the info. So no way is travelling around beforehand to drop off forms going to result in a net saving of time.