Genealogy Chat

I am searching for the siblings (if any) of my gt gt grandfather Alexander Dunbar born in Belfast abt 1843, occupation mariner, father's name Daniel, mother's name unknown. Married a Margaret Dunbar in 1869 and his second wife Maria Mullen in 1888. Children born are Charles, Daniel, William and Mary Anne. Lived in Birkenhead and Liverpool. area. I have found his mariner records from various crew lists. But I really need to find his mother's name and if he had any siblings. -

have you looked on family search rosezina

its very good site

Nudge

Marriages Sep 1865 (>99%)
Beckett Margaret Liverpool 8b 102
Dunbar Alexander Liverpool 8b 102

Son Daniel's christening record -

All the other christenings on the same page of the image give the mother's ms, so unless it's a mistake in this one instance, his wife Margaret's ms was also Dunbar, as stated by Rosezina.

Daniel Dunbar
in the Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1802-1906
Name: Daniel Dunbar
Birth Date: 26 Mar 1873
Baptism Date: 11 Sep 1878
Parish: St Augustine (Augustini), Lancashire, England
Father's name: Alexandus Dunbar
Mother's name: Margarita Dunbar



Daniel Dunbar
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Daniel Dunbar
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Relationship to Head: Son (Child)
Mother: Margaret Dunbar
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool
Civil Parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 4 Court 1 Ho Princes Walk
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 42
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3601
Folio: 84
Page Number: 27
Household Members:
Name Age
Margaret Dunbar 32 - b. Ireland; occupation: wife of seaman (scored out)
Daniel Dunbar 8
William Dunbar 4
Mary Ann Dunbar 2



Mary Ann Dunbar
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Mary Ann Dunbar
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation to Head: Daughter (Child)
Gender: Female
Father: Alexander Dunbar
Mother: Maria Dunbar
Birth Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Liverpool St Martin
Ecclesiastical parish: St Aidan
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3409
Folio: 155
Page Number: 10
Household schedule number: 63
Household Members:
Name Age
Alexander Dunbar 59 - b. Belfast
Maria Dunbar 54
Patrick Maslin 25 - stepson (actually Mullin in image)
Mary Ann Dunbar 22 - daughter



Alexander Dunbar
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Alexander Dunbar
Age in 1911: 69
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Belfast, Down, Ireland
Civil Parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 3 3 Court Whitley St Liverpool
Marital Status: Widowed
Occupation: Dock Laborer
Registration district: Liverpool
Registration District Number: 453
Sub-registration district: Scotland
ED, institution, or vessel: 29
Piece: 22145
Household Members:
Name Age
Alexander Dunbar 69
Mary Ann Riley 31 - daughter
Joseph Riley 3 - grandson
William Riley 5/12 - grandson
Alexander Dunbar 16 - "Ditto" for grandson scored out, and "son" written in

No help with Alexander's mother's name, I'm afraid -

but Margaret Dunbar in 1871:

Margaret Dunbar
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Margaret Dunbar
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Female
Where born: Dublin, Ireland
Civil Parish: Birkenhead
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Birkenhead
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Registration district: Birkenhead
Sub-registration district: Birkenhead
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Household schedule number: 86
Piece: 3746
Folio: 124
Page Number: 7

Occupation listed as sailor's wife.


And possibly 1851:

Margaret Dunbar
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Margaret Dunbar
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation: Daughter (Child)
Father's name: Charles Dunbar
Mother's name: Margaret Dunbar
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Birkenhead
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Registration district: Wirral
Sub-registration district: Birkenhead
ED, institution, or vessel: 1p
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 45
Piece: 2175
Folio: 532
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Dunbar 27
Margaret Dunbar 26
Catharine Dunbar 5
Margaret Dunbar 3
Sarah Dunbar 1

The first marriage

NOTE: No father named by Alexander******************

First name(s) Alexander
Last name Dunbar
Age 28y
Marriage year 1869
Marriage date 08 Nov 1869
Marriage place Birkenhead
Parish St. Mary
Spouse's first name(s) Margaret
Spouse's last name Dunbar
Spouse's age 22y
Bride's father's name Charles Dunbar
City or town Birkenhead
County Cheshire
Country England
Reference item 2 p 124

First name(s) MARGARET
Last name DUNBAR
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1869
MARGARET DUNBAR married one of these people
THOMAS DEMPSEY, ALEXANDER DUNBAR
District BIRKENHEAD
District number -
County Cheshire
Country England
Volume 8A
Page 637


For whatever reason, it isn't on freebmd

Totally irrelevant, but the marriage was 100 years to the day before my stepdaughter's marriage

Welcome to the Community boards Rosezina.



(I'll let Rosezina know how to return to her thread) :-)

Thanks for the advice

Alexander's father, Daniel was a land steward in Belfast, I am wondering if there is any kind of trade directory for this kind of work. I cannot think of another route to find his brothers and sisters, because I only have his father's name and occupation, no spouse or birthyear even.

Looking at image on FMP, Father Daniel, occ. Land Steward. Residence at Time for both, 14 Bryson Street. Her Father, Charles, occ. Stone Mason

(comes up as below)


Marriages Dec 1869 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------
Dunbah Alexander Birkenhead 8a 637
Dunbah Margaret Birkenhead 8a 637

Chris :)

(if relating)

10 August 1869 - Liverpool Daily Post - Liverpool, Merseyside, England

ASSAULTING A LANDLORD.
Mary Holloran and Bridget Tibney. mother and daughter, were brought up on remand, charged with violently assaulting Daniel Dunbar, an elderly , man, living in No. 4 Court, Crosby-street. The prisoners lodged at his house, and on the 25th ultimo he entered their apartment and demanded some money they owed him. Instead of paying him, they beat him about the head with a candle-stick and poker, inflicting several severe wounds. He was in a dangerous state for some days, but is now recovering. They were all drunk at the time the affair occurred. The prisoners were sent to gaol for two months each.

Alexander's 2nd wife was Maria "Riley" Mullen....

Name: Alexander Dunbar
Spouse's Name: Maria Mullen
Event Date: 08 Oct 1888
Event Place: Liverpool, Lancaster, England
Father's Name: Daniel Dunbar
Spouse's Father's Name: Peter Riley
Marital Status: Widowed
Spouse's Marital Status: Widowed

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M01091-9 , System Origin: England-EASy , GS Film number: 1656375 , Reference ID: It 5 p 152

Thanks,everyone

I have Alexander's and Margaret' marriage certificate and they lived in 14 Byrom St. I am not sure though if Daniel was still back in Ireland, I have seen no evidence that he moved to England, and I don't think a bride and groom's father had to be present to be recorded on a marriage certificate.

I am also still searching for the 1861 census for the Alexander or Margaret, so far it fails to show up, I have searched FMP, Ancestry and Familysearch.. . Finding this census info may provide some vital clues

Thanks,everyone

I have Alexander's and Margaret' marriage certificate and they lived in 14 Byrom St. I am not sure though if Daniel was still back in Ireland, I have seen no evidence that he moved to England, and I don't think a bride and groom's father had to be present to be recorded on a marriage certificate.

I am also still searching for the 1861 census for the Alexander or Margaret, so far it fails to show up, I have searched FMP, Ancestry and Familysearch.. . Finding this census info may provide some vital clues

Marriage: 8 Oct 1888 St Paul, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Alexander Dunbar - Full, Seaman, Widower, 3 Court, 9 House, Regent Street
Maria Mullen - (X), Full, Widow, 3 Court, 9 House, Regent Street
Groom's Father: Daniel Dunbar, Deceased
Bride's Father: Peter Riley, Deceased
Witness: Isaac Paul; Sarah Paul, (X)
Married by Banns by: F. W. Job
Register: Marriages 1878 - 1901, Page 152, Entry 304
Source: LDS Film 1656375


(not sure if you have above, also on below)

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

Chris :)


(Father of Margaret below)

1861 (Find My Past)
Chas Dunbare Head Married Male 24 1837 Stone Mason Ireland
Margt Dunbare Wife Married Female 35 1826 - Ireland
Mary Dunbare Daughter - Female 13 1848 Scholar Ireland
Roseann Dunbare Daughter - Female 8 1853 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Mary Ann Dunbare Daughter - Female 6 1855 Scholar Wales
Sarah Dunbare Daughter - Female 4 1857 - Birkenhead, Cheshire, England
Job Dunbare - - Female 2 1859 - Birkenhead, Cheshire, England
Joseph Dunbare - - Male 0 1861 - Birkenhead, Cheshire, England
France Harkness Lodger Married Male 45 1816 Labourer Ireland
Mary Harkuess Wife Married Female 40 1821 - Ireland
Chas Weldon Lodger Unmarried Male 36 1825 Boiler Maker Ireland
Street 3 Byrom Street
Parish Birkenhead
Town Birkenhead
County Cheshire
Ecclesiastical district Holy Trinity
Registration district Birkenhead
Enumeration district 13
Piece number 2642
Folio number 23
Page number 39


http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/forum/topic11948.html

Rosezina.....



Alex Dunbar son of Daniel married Margaret Dunbar daughter of Charles ...were they 1st Cousins..??

Some of the children of Alex and Margaret (Birkenhead) appeared to have been Baptised at Holy Trinity( Church of England) where Alex and Margaret were married...

Charles Dunbar 1871
Daniel Dunbar 1873*****
Joseph Dunbar 1875

Then we have them over in Liverpool being Baptised at St Augustines (see ArgyllGrans post above....

I cannot see the wood for the trees on this one....

Thanks for the searches.

Yes, we have two separate lines of Dunbars in our family tree, from Northern Ireland and Dublin. Alexander Dunbar married a Margaret Dunbar in 1845. I have no idea if they were related though.

The Dunbar family tree gets even more complicated........Margaret's mother, Margaret Mary Dunbar (nee Weldon) born Ireland abt 1823 appears to have had a son by another man whilst still married to Alexander, a son called Thomas Morgan born in Ireland in 1862, and then went on to have two more children by her husband Charles in 1864 and 1865, So does this mean that Margaret travelled to Ireland had an affair and child in Ireland, and then came back to Birkenhead and had two more children with her husband. Plus also one child Mary Ann was born in Swansea abt 1854 - not sure of the Welsh connection there.

I wonder whether this might be the death of Alexander's father Daniel

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FT47-PNL

Name: Daniel Dunbar
Event Type: Death
Event Date: Jul - Sep 1887
Event Place: Strabane, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year: Jul - Sep 1887
Registration District: Strabane
Age: 75
Birth Year (Estimated): 1812
Volume Number: 2
Page Number: 212

there is one other Dunbar death in Strabane showing, James 1820-1894



Rosezina your last post doesn't completely make sense

'Margaret's mother, Margaret Mary Dunbar (nee Weldon) born Ireland abt 1823 appears to have had a son by another man whilst still married to Alexander'

first, just to avoid confusion, Margaret Mary Weldon was married Charles Dunbar not Alexander :-)

where does the information about her having a son named Thomas Morgan in Ireland in 1862 come from?


for info this is the family in 1861 per Ancestry

Chas Duncan 24
Margt Duncan 35
Mary Duncan 13
Roseann Duncan 8
Mary Ann Duncan 6
Sarah Duncan 4
Isab Duncan 2
Joseph Duncan 3/12
Francis Harkness 45
Mary Harkness 40
Chas Weldon 36

it appears to say Dunbare as Chris posted above

I would certainly correct that name at Ancestry and state your relationship ... someone else related may see it one day and will be able to contact you


oh finally, 1881 in Birkenhead

Charles Dunbar 59
Mary Dunbar 58
Joseph Dunbar 20
Thomas Morgan 19

I would really suggest that the 'son' next to the name of Thomas Morgan is an error

but actually ... the census page is very messy right there ... in fact he is shown opposite a different household schedule number (217) from the Dunbars (216) and seems to be associated with the two names below him, which are somewhat incomprehensible, but Ancestry has interpreted as Henry and Mary Morgan, 48 and 39, who would appear to be his parents

Thanks for the info. You are probably right about Thomas Morgan, this info only shows up on the 1881 census.

re siblings ..if there are school records you may find names + ages + the address at enrollment worth doing a search with surname in school + educ rcords +

I found some on here + some others on FMP