Genealogy Chat

Thank you Joonie. :-)

It does seem that way - 3 brothers, only one married, he had three daughters all of whom died unmarried, leaving no Patemans in Canada from your Pateman family.

this is the Pateman family in Hampshire in 1891

William Pateman 40
Elizabeth Pateman 37
Charles Harris 17
Caroline Pateman 12
Alfred Pateman 10
William Pateman 8
George Pateman 7
Frederick Pateman 4
Frank Pateman 1

(no children born after Frank per the 1901)

so it was the three youngest who sailed away.


just for interest - since the girls' names were rather unusual, google can find interesting things ...

https://www.covenanthousetoronto.ca/homeless-youth/Page/Files/2316_Annual%20Report%202007.pdf

Dorothea died in 2006, and the 2007 report for this charity for homeless youth shows her estate as a benefactor

Joonie

Thank you very much - once again :-)

I had not picked up George,there are so many George Patemans' on the UK records I had not followed him up and did not make the connection to the Ontario address.

I assume that his 3 daughters did not marry as they are buried in their maiden names -

btw are you overlooking a Pateman brother or did you already know about George?

1921 census in St Thomas

George Pateman 39 immigrated 1913
Elsie Pateman 31 born India immigrated 1916
Margaret Pateman 3
Dorothola Pateman 5

his name kept turning up on searches ... he worked at the water works in St Thomas at the same time as Fred per the 1919 city directory ... so I tracked him down

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:278X-SL7

Name George Pateman
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 21 Oct 1916
Event Place St Thomas, Elgin, Ontario, Canada
Gender Male
Age 31
Birth Year (Estimated) 1885
> Father's Name Wm Pateman
> Mother's Name Elizabeth Harris
Spouse's Name Elsie James Or Jones Stone
Spouse's Gender Female
Spouse's Age 26
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated) 1890
Spouse's Father's Name James Stone
Spouse's Mother's Name Annie Riddett

Marriages Mar 1877
Harris Elizabeth Christchurch 2b 832
PATEMAN William Christchurch 2b 832

George's grave:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=107258687

there is also a grave in that cemetery for daughters Stella, Dorothea and Margaret

another trace of them, in St Thomas where they lived when they were conscripted, at their 1922 address

https://archive.org/stream/vernstthomas192200vernuoft/vernstthomas192200vernuoft_djvu.txt

Pateman, Frank, lab, 34 Hiawatha
-- Fred, wks Waterworks, 34 Hiawatha

in 1919 Frank is at the address given on his attestation papers, 43 St Catharine, St Thomas, occupation soldier, likely not having been sent overseas, but Fred was likely still overseas

https://archive.org/stream/vernstthomas191900vernuoft#page/184/mode/2up

so, they do show up on voters' lists in Canada, but only occasionally

the last one for Fred is

Name: Frederick Pateman
Occupation: Retired
Year: 1958
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Electoral District: London

and for Frank

Name: Frank Pateman
Occupation: Retired
Year: 1968
Location: Middlesex, Ontario, Canada
Electoral District: Middlesex


I would be certain they are those two because of the location (in London Ontario) and the fact that they are both retired

Fred is shown as a labourer in 1935 and retired in 1949 and 1958

Frank appears only in 1968

they are both apparently never married, and seem to be rooomers/boarders

I might have wondered whether Frank was in Winnipeg, a labourer/painter, on earlier lists

but that Frank has wife 'Mrs Frank' and apparently children Charles and 'Miss Olive', in 1935, and your Frank would not have had two children of voting age (21) by that date ... yes they are on the 1921 census in Winnipeg and that Frank was born abt 1875 and had numerous children by then

Frank would not be the one in Hamilton Ontario, still a surgical instrument maker in 1972

that leaves one Frank Pateman, in Vancouver in 1957, no occupation (or 'retired') shown

okay no, he does not show up in Ancestry's transcription in 1958, but his neighbour Sam Webber does, and looking at the image, that Frank is still there and is an accountant, so again not likely

Hello Joonie

Thank you for the additional information and links

The death/buriel for Frederick Pateman came up on the CanadaGenWeb Cemetaries Index{not Find a Grave - my error}

Their father William died in 1937

here's one thing on Fred, 'nominal roll of men returned to Canada' 1919

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2H2V-YDZ

but it says dependant is mother, in St Thomas

I can't see his grave at findagrave


this is them travelling out in 1912

FRANK PATEMAN 1890 SOUTHAMPTON 1912 PORTLAND United States
FRED PATEMAN 1888 SOUTHAMPTON 1912 PORTLAND United States


actually both Frank and Frederick were in the CEF in WWI - free access at Canadian govt site, don't need Ancestry

(copy and paste links back together)

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/
Pages/search.aspx

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/
Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=565033
Name: PATEMAN, FRANK
Regimental Number: 3137766
Date of Birth: 25/06/1889

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/
Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=565034
Name: PATEMAN, FREDERICK
Regimental Number: 3130544
Date of Birth: 20/03/1887

both were conscripted, Frank in June 1918 and Frederick in January 1918

next of kin father William Pateman, Hampshire, which suggests mother was deceased

both were single, labourers, living at 43 (St) Catherine St, St Thomas, Ontario

but no more luck finding them in 1921 or after either

Thank you Joonie and Sylvia :-)

I managed to find my way in to access the records with mixed success !

Frederick Pateman born 1887 Hampshire and his brother Frank down as born 1890 left Southampton on 28 March 1912

They are both in the UK 1911 census

Frederick served in the Canadian Army in WW1 and I have found him in London Ontario subsquently {and where findagrave has his buriel}

I did not manage to find a marriage for either of them or find them in the 1921 census

Frank Pateman - I cannot be sure which one he is - there a several :-|

{I have their UK info up until their departure for Canada}

but Sylvia, following the instructions I gave lets you search in the normal way as if you had a suscription for the record :-)

I have Premium Membership

All I did was enter the surname I was interested in and tick Canada in Collection Focus

The records came up, looked as they normally do, when some information is blocked out BUT when I held the mouse over View Record, I could access the whole record.


eg ..........


All Ontario, Canada, Marriages, 1801-1928 results

View Record William Hayhurst date Leeds and Grenville name surname
View Record John Duckworth Hayhurst date Huron name surname


Hold the mouse steady over View Record, do NOT click, and you will see a box that show the information available.

If you click on it, you will be asked to upgrade to World.


All I was interested in doing was checking to see if any of them might be connected to OH's family for future reference

I never know how that works! are you logged in at ancestry.ca ?

okay I'm not logged in there, just at co.uk (with a sub to one you can log in to any of them)

on the main page go on the right hand side to

Celebrate family with
FREE ACCESS
and start building
your tree today.

and click Get Started

that gives you a pop-up that says

Celebrate family with FREE access
to global passenger lists and ALL
Canadian records.

and click Search Now

okay ... I searched for somebody and I got a pop-up

Register to see your search results.

so I guess you have to have a free account to do it
(with an email address other than the one you use for ancestry.co.uk)

That is actually a good thing because then you will receive future special offers, like the one I got late last year via a free account at ancestry.ca from one of these other offers, that got me a worldwide sub half off the Canadian price which is already way lower than the UK price)

So ... I registered again using a throw-away gmail address, and there we are, I get access to the records for the name

well the results from that search are pretty screwy, but as soon as you get them, you go to the standard 'Search' link at the top of the page to search in the usual way and you get the usual format of search results


not very straightforward, but it should get you there in the end, and there are still two free days!

I found some TODAY :-) but although the various records are listed I cannot seem to be able view them - do I have to register seperately ? {I have UK Premium}

yes that's right, it would be midnight Canadian time - but what about the west coast of Canada, midnight would be later and so the UK should get extra time!

Oh hm I see, my email said until 16 February, so I assumed it meant the end of 16 February Canadian time, but I guess not, it's the midnight that is the beginning of 16 February, which is unusual.

so Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday are free


maybe somebody has some long lost emigrant ancestors to look for :-)

Just to clarify JC's date, her URL says free access ends 5am 16/2/16 UK time.

until 16 February

http://www.ancestry.ca/cs/familyday2016

(one of my old free Ancestry accounts gets these notices, even though I have a paid worldwide sub under a different email address)