Genealogy Chat

I am trying to find the death record for my Grandfather, James Smith.
(aka James Peter Smith)

I know he was living at 14 Kirk Street, Holborn, London at the time of the 1939 census along with his son Patrick Michael Smith.
On the census return he stated that he was divorced but I have not found any evidence that he was divorced.

His wife stated that she was a "widow" when she remarried in March 1945.

James was born in Kilkenny, Ireland in December 1882, parents Daniel Smith (Army) and Mary Smith (Nee Nagle or Neagle), however James often gave his birth year as 1884

Sorry I have no information about James after the 1939 census.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Truth be told, he could have died anywhere, but these are close to last known address.

Info only as accurate as the knowledge of the informant who gives it.

All of these before his "wife" remarries.

Very few Divorce records survive

???
Holborn to Islington c 2 miles

England & Wales deaths 1837-2007 Transcription

First name(s) JAMES
Last name SMITH
Gender Male
Birth year 1884
Age 55
Death quarter 4
Death year 1939
District ISLINGTON
County London
Volume 1B
Page 221

---------------------------
2.6 miles Holborn to Lambeth. birth just as likely to be 1883

First name(s) JAMES
Last name SMITH
Gender Male
Birth year 1884
Age 57
Death quarter 1
Death year 1941
District LAMBETH
County London
Volume 1D
Page 293

--------------------
8 miles
First name(s) JAMES
Last name SMITH
Gender Male
Birth year 1883
Age 60
Death quarter 4
Death year 1943
District EDMONTON
County Middlesex
Volume 3A
Page 934

-----------------------
4 miles
First name(s) JAMES
Last name SMITH
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1885
Age 58
Death quarter 1
Death year 1943
District CAMBERWELL
County London
Volume 1D
Page 680
---------------------------
4.5 miles
First name(s) JAMES
Last name SMITH
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1882
Age 62
Death quarter 2
Death year 1944
District FINSBURY
County London
Volume 1B
Page 386

Have you tried looking at all the Civilian War dead listed on CWGC?
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx?cpage=1

It might be quite time consuming, but you should be able to skip over the ones too old/too young or with a 'wrong' middle name.
Clicking on an entry usually tells you were they died, and often names a relation

Thank you "greyghost" and "DetEcTive" for your input, I will check out these leads and report back on this forum.

For our benefit, and just in case the day and month of birth helps

1939 Register (Its not a Census as such)

Smith Household (2 People) 14 Kirk Street , Holborn, London, England

First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
James P Smith 14 Dec 1884 Male Lavatory Attendant Divorced
Patrick M Smith 17 Feb 1923 Male Messenger Single

Thanks DetEcTive the Patrick N Smith living with him was his son
James actual birthday was 4 Dec 1882 baptised 24 Dec 1882 but throughout his life he often said he was born in 1884? He also added the middle name "Peter" sometime after about 1908???

Did his wife say widow/divorced or married on the 1939?

She might just have gone ahead and got married without divorcing if they had lost contact?

Does his son later marry and claim his Father is still alive, or dead, or do you have no further information about the son? Sorry, not sure if this son is your Father or Uncle.

If the informant on his death certificate had always known him as James P, and born 1884, then that would be how he was recorded on the death certificate.

There is a James P Smith and a Terence M Smith living in Holborn on the 1962 ER, Endsleigh Place, Passfield Hall.

Thanks Pachem, the info I have to go on is as follows;

In 1939 register his wife (Rose Violet Smith, nee Turnage) shows her name as Rose Hall, (The surname of Smith has been crossed through), married, living with a James Hall (who she later married in 1945) also their son Dennis born in 1932. There is also another name blacked out who I suspect was their other son Sydney, born 1930. Their address was 9 Monteagle Avenue, Barking, Essex.

James Smith's daughter Eileen Violet Smith married Simon Fagelson in October 1943 on the certificate she named her father as James Peter Smith, occupation Chef but in 1945 when his ex wife Rose Violet Smith remarried to James Hall she stated that she was a "Widow"

I am currently checking the death records which were suggested by "greyghost" above, I can discount 1943 Edmonton (3A 934) and 1944 Finsbury (1B 386) I am awaiting death cert for 1943 Camberwell (1D 680)
Patrick M Smith was my uncle, my father was Anthony Smith, born June 1926 (Deceased 1991)
Thans again for your help it is much appreciated :-)

DOB is also 24th Dec 1884 on this record:

Britain, merchant seamen, 1918-1941 Transcription

First name(s) James Peter
Last name Smith
Event year 1918
Birth year 1884
Birth place Kilkenny
Birth county/country Kilkenny
Birth date 24 Dec 1884
Identity certificate number 849834
Card type CR10
Archive The National Archives
Series BT350
Date range 1918-1921
------------------------------------

Also him?
Royal Artillery attestations 1883-1942 Transcription
First name(s) James Peter
Last name Smith
Age 36
Birth year 1885
Birth place Kilkenny
Attestation year 1921
Service number 739055

59 Toronto Road, Tilbury Essex

Rose Violet Smith 16.0.1917
Herbert J Smith 14.12.1917
Eileen V Smith 6.10.1919
Patrick M Smith 17.2.1923

1939 Electoral Register:

14 Kirk Street
Florence Louisa Bull
Edward Gorman
Amelia Louisa Gorman
Mary Monica Leach
George Prevett
James Peter Smith

James doesn't appear at this address in 1938