Genealogy Chat

I docked 16/6/1965. I think you only needed an SSN if you were in paid employment, and even then, there were obscure ways around the requirement. They sent my initial application back because I didn't fill in race -well I hardly thought I was "other," so I just left it blank. When they sent my application back, I asked around and found out I was Caucasian, even though my folks had never been within 4000 km of the Caucasus, which are half in Asia anyways.

mgnv ..............


thank you for that

I did not know that SSNs started so late.

I knew that we had to have one in 1967, and assumed they had been around for much longer.

We must have arrived in the US around the same time!

Sylvia re: "....... my great uncle worked in the US from his arrival in 1902 to sometime in the 1940s, and his name does not appear on the SSDI, yet he must have had an SS #!"

Even today, having a SSN is not compulsory - in fact many Amish refuse to have one.
The majority of American's did not have one in the 1940s, and most who did were receing some pension like an old war pension.
In 1940, there were less than 0.25 M pension recipients in a population of 132 M.
In 1950, there were nearly 3.5 M pension recipients in a population of 152 M.
In 1960, there were over 14.8 M pension recipients in a population of 180 M.

I don't know, but I had the impression that getting an SSN really started taking off in the mid 1950s, but this was 10y before I lived there so I'm just guessing.

Given that Stanley married and lived in Liverpool might this be him in 1911- father James, a cabinet maker?

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
52 Crown ST, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

James Williams Head Married Male Cabinet Maker 36 1875 Dublin Ireland
Annie Williams Wife Married Female - 39 1872 Dublin Ireland
Thomas Williams Son - Male School 12 1899 Liverpool
Annie Williams Daughter - Female - 7 1904 Liverpool
Stanley Williams Son - Male - 5 1906 Liverpool
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Same family 1901- father James, a joiner:

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
16, Wilmott Street, Everton, West Derby, Lancashire, England

James Williams Head Married Male 26 1875 Joiner Ireland
Annie Williams Wife Married Female 30 1871 - Ireland
Thomas Williams Son - Male 2 1899 - Liverpool, Lancashire,
Thomas Williams Brother Single Male 24 1877 Tailor Ireland
------------------------------------------------------

Note that his Brother, Thomas, was actually baptised Thomas Joseph:

Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1802-1906
Name Thomas Josephus Williams
Birth Date 4 Sep 1898
Baptism Date 18 Sep 1898
Parish St Francis Xavier's (Francisci Xavarii)
Father's Name Jacobi Williams
Mother's Name Anna Margarita Burns
-------------------------------------------------------------

What was the address on Stanley's birth certificate?

Who was his mother on his birth certificate?

another option .................

was Elizabeth unmarried when the children were born, and they were registered in her maiden name?

alternatively, look on the 1901 census to find Caroline mother and daughter ...... see who husband/father is, and name of any sons.

This is the Stanley James born in 1905 Lancashire

1911 Census

Name: Stanley James Williams
Age in 1911: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1905
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Garston, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Swansea
Search Photos: Search for 'Swansea' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: 108 Rhondda St Mount Pleasant
Registration district: Swansea
Registration District Number: 594
Sub-registration district: Swansea
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 219
Piece: 32768

Caroline Williams 67 b.ca 1844, Swansea, Married
Caroline Williams 40 b.ca 1871, Swansea, Daughter
Elizabeth Williams 28 b.ca 1883, Garston, Lancashire, Married
Stanley James Williams 6
Sylvia Dorson Williams 1 b.ca 1910, Garston


Looking at the image ............. they are 2 separate households at the same address. Caroline mother and daughter in one, and Elizabeth and her children in the other.

I think that Elizabeth Williams is Stanley' mother (NOT Caroline as put on the transcript)

Elizabeth put that she had been married 8 years and had 2 children born and living.

so now you need to find a marriage for xxxxx Williams and Elizabeth xxxx ca 1901-3, and possibly in Lancashire.

First ....... have you found Stanley James on the 1911 Census?

If so, who is shown as his father?

Could it be that Stanley did NOT know the name of his father, perhaps because had died when he was too young to know, or that father had left the family, or that he had been brought up by someone else.

eg, what was James Williams' father called? If Thomas Joseph, then it is possible that James died or left, and Stanley was raised by his grandfather, but thought he was his father.

Hello everyone
I have been delving and sending for birth and death certificates as suggested and just basically obsessed as you do to find more information ......
I have discovered the birth cert shows father as James Williams , , Joiner Journeyman
However on Stanley James marraige cert shows his father as Thomas Joseph Williams , cabinet maker journeyman (deceased)
Could Stanley be a bit more complicated than I thought ?,
I cant find another birth entry for Stanley for 2 years either side of 1905?
Cant find a death of Thomas Joseph 1903 to 1930 (Stanleys marraige )
Any suggestions would be gratefully received

1939 register

Stanley J Williams 01 Jul 1904 Male Temporary Postman Married
Minnie F Williams 17 Sep 1908 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married


might this be Minnie and she did not outlive Stanley?

Name: Minnie Irene Williams
>> Birth Date: 17 Sep 1908
Date of Registration: Jul 1993
Age at Death: 84
Registration district: Knowsley
Inferred County: Merseyside
Register Number: B28
District and Subdistrict: 0231B
Entry Number: 81

Births Dec 1908
Brown Minnie Irene Liverpool 8b 84

Marriages Sep 1930
BROWN Minnie I Williams Liverpool 8b 390
Williams Stanley J Brown Liverpool 8b 390


I think that is Minnie's death in 1993


Stanley's birth for good measure

Births Sep 1905
Williams Stanley James W. Derby 8b 616


edit --- that SJW seems to be the child of James/Frederick Williams and Elizabeth Wilkinson ... see my post about that household (the one in Swansea on this page) on page 2

re-edit --- no he isn't! the SJW son of James/Frederick Williams and Elizabeth Wilkinson was actually born in Swansea

Kath is right - that social security record is *not* a registration of a death that occurred in the jurisdiction in question

the person had a social security number so if their death overseas is reported to social security, it is included in the index

the only 'Illinois' connection is that that is where his social security number was originally issued - *not* where he died

presumably the death was reported via the US consulate because there was family entitled to a death benefit or survivor's pension

the death actually occurred in England

Ancestry's version - note that his 'last residence' was the US Consulate in London

Stanley J. Williams
SSN: 327-36-7703
Last Residence:
800 (U.S. Consulate) London, United Kingdom
BORN: 1 Jul 1905
Died: 2 Dec 1994
State (Year) SSN issued: Illinois (1959-1961)

UK's gro index entry
Stanley James Williams
Birth Date: 1 Jul 1905
Date of Registration: Dec 1994
Age at Death: 89
Registration district: Lancaster
Inferred County: Lancashire
Register Number: A52B
District and Subdistrict: 5871A
Entry Number: 147

Perhaps he'd returned to visit family? Alternatively, may be he preferred to spend his last years in the country of his birth.?

It might be worth ordering a copy of his DC to see what information it gives including the name and address of the informant.

I presume this is the record that you already have:-

Social Security Death Index Transcription
Learn more

First name(s) Stanley J
Middle name -
Last name Williams
Suffix -
Birth year 1905
Birth month Jul
Birth day 01
Death year 1994
Death month Dec
Death day 02
Place of issue Illinois
State Illinois
SSN 327-36-7703
Record set Social Security Death Index

Kath. x

Thank you everyone for all your help I will try all your suggestions in the meantime this is all I know
Stanley James Williams born 1 July 1904 or 1905 (father Thomas Joseph Williams) possibly West Derby /Liverpool areas, Lived in Chester with his wife Minnie nee Brown 1939 census, had a son Norman born 1930 in Liverpool. Stanley emigrated in late 1960's but his wife didn't go with him
I know he went to Illinois and his possible death in Illinois 2 Dec 1994
his SSN was 327-36-7703
Will let you know if I find anything xxx

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_Death_Index says its for deaths after 1936 but that only between 93 -97% of deaths from 1971 for the over 65s are reported.
The optimum word is probably Reported.

You cannot find everyone on the SSDI, even if they had an SS # ......


......... my great uncle worked in the US from his arrival in 1902 to sometime in the 1940s, and his name does not appear on the SSDI, yet he must have had an SS #!

I don't think he flew under the radar, because I do have his draft card for WW1.

My great aunt never worked, so would not have had a SS number.


The intriguing thing is that I just cannot find a death for either of them anywhere, yet I know my gt aunt out-lived her husband and died sometime in the mid-1950s. She was still living in the same city at that time.

https://familysearch.org/ list entries from the Social Security Death Index (SSDI) and is regularly updated. Obviously the SS no owner has to have died!

As other's have said, it really depends what info you have and what you wish to find out. Being a FH site, we tend to delve into the history of the deceased.

Having said that, the US do permit a large amount of personal data to appear on the internet. As Rose says, 'google' to see what's available. Quite a few of the 'people tracer' sites require a payment or refuse to proceed if they realise from your IP address that you are outside the USA.

There is this one, but I imagine it depends what info you are hoping to find, and if the person is living or deceased. It is always worth trying Google for info, it can be surprising what comes up!

https://www.usatrace.com/faq/

I'm afraid I can't help with your request but just wanted to say that I doubt very much whether there is a way of doing this especially as the USA are so security minded these days.

Someone else may have more knowledge of this.

Kath. x

Can anyone suggest a web site or family history group that can check details from a Social Security no.
Thanks Sandra