Genealogy Chat

Hi All,
I'm really hoping you clever, knowledgable people might be able to help me. I have found the Halling family but I cannot find the 1861 census record for ANY of the individuals. They were based in Gloucester (Winchcomb, Beckford areas). These are the members:

James HALLING B:1824
Jane HALLING: B: 1822
James HALLING B: 1848
Samuel HALLING B: 1850
Ann HALLING B: 1854
William HALLING B: 1852
Mary HALLING B: 1856
John HALLING B: 1858
Thomas HALLING B: 1858

I've tried different sites, different spellings and I can't think what to do next! Anyone have any ideas? I need this record to confirm John and Thomas were definitely James and Jane's as birth record says Jane is the mother (LEECH). Baptism record says the mothers name is Ann!

Any advice appreciated ??

(from relating 'Thread', below Census)

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1344465

Chris :)


safc Report 8 Sep 2014 11:56
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Teddington Hands Tarn, Overbury, Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire, England
Print household transcription
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Hawling Head - Male 47 1824 - Gloucestershire, England
Image Transcription
Jane Hawling Wife - Female 49 1822 - Worcestershire, England
Image Transcription
Thomas Hawling Son - Male 12 1859 - Gloucestershire, England
Image Transcription
George Hawling Son - Male 8 1863 - Worcestershire, England
Image Transcription
Jane Hawling Daughter - Female 6 1865 - Worcestershire, England
Image Transcription
Charles Peart Boarder - Male 15 1856 - Gloucestershire, England


safc Report 9 Sep Report 9 Sep 2014 14:36
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Beckford, Winchcomb, Gloucestershire, England
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Hauling Head Married Male 26 1825 Shepherd Buckland, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Jane Hauling Wife Married Female 29 1822 Shopkeeper Broadway, Worcestershire, England
Transcription
James Hauling Son - Male 2 1849 - Beckford, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Samuel Hauling Son - Male 0 1851 - Beckford, Gloucestershire, England


Jacqueline Report 9 Sep 2014 14:58
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
HALLING James LEECH Jane Cheltenham Dumbleton St Peter 1847 1 25

Beckford and Dumbleton are within a few miles of each other


Births
HALLING James HALLING HALLING LEECH 1848 Cheltenham Winchcombe, Cleeve 3 276
HALLING John HALLING HALLING LEECH 1858 Cheltenham Winchcombe, Cleeve 6 16
HALLING Mary C HALLING HALLING LEECH 1856 Cheltenham Winchcombe, Cleeve 5 253
HALLING Thomas HALLING HALLING LEECH 1858 Cheltenham Winchcombe, Cleeve 6 17


http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/MainMenu.aspx

Something wrong there with the ages?

Have you got them on a census please to refer to.

edit cross posted. Thanks Chris

just out of interest, this is the ancestry version of the 1871 Census :-D

1871 Census

Name: Thomas Thawling
[Thomas Halling]
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relation: Son
Father's name: James Thawling
Mother's name: Jane Thawling
Gender: Male
Where born: Beckford, Gloucestershire, England
Civil Parish: Overbury
Town: Teddington
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Tewkesbury
Sub-registration district: Overbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 10
Piece: 2677
Folio: 21
Page Number: 2

James Thawling 47
Jane Thawling 49
Thomas Thawling 12
George Thawling 8
Jane Thawling 6
Charles Peurt 15

and the 1851 Census

1851 Census

Name: James Hauling
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1825
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane Hauling
Gender: Male
Where born: Buckland, Gloucestershire, England
Civil Parish: Beckford
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Registration district: Winchcomb
Sub-registration district: Guyting
ED, institution, or vessel: 7

Household schedule number: 55
Piece: 1971
Folio: 291
Page Number: 14

James Hauling 26
Jane Hauling 29 b.ca 1822
James Hauling 2 b.ca 1849
Samuel Hauling 11 Mo b.ca 1850

Thank you. I have found all of these records already. I just can't find a census record for 1861. Was it common for records to go missing? Or not be completed? Thank you so much for your replies. I'm still learning and as I figure one thing out it opens up a whole load of new questions!
I think John died aged 11 so the only record he would be in is the 1861 census....
Thanks for your time :-)

Nicola ..

we know, or assume, that you have all those records, but we need to see them to see the full details, to get our heads around the family, and the possible mis-spellings!

Some of the things to try .... and I have tried all of these, without success so far!!

use the wild card * in place of some of the letters ........... eg, ha*in*; ja*s

use forenames, birth year +/-5, and birth county only for one child plus mother and father, in case the surname has been badly messed up

Go directly to the 1861 Census, enter living in (place name) + county and search there. I've tried that using surname only and using one forename only ......... no success in Winchcombe, and Beckford is not a place name used on that census on ancestry

The one thing I have not tried is searching the whole of the 1861 Census inc ase they moved elsewhere!

Regarding missing pieces ......... yes, pieces, names etc can be missed off a census

Much more common is mis-spellings of surnames, or using the wrong surname ......... eg, if there are several people living in a house some may be listed under the surname of the person9s) ahead of them. This can also apply to next door neighbours!


One of the best mis-spellings I've found in my own researches was Porst ........ instead of Hayhurst :-D

Gloucestershire BMD Indexes
Advanced Birth Search

Home Search Criteria

Criteria entered: Surname: halling, Maiden name: leech, Year From: 1858, Year To: 1858,

Number of entries matching criteria entered: 2
Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
HALLING John HALLING HALLING LEECH 1858 Cheltenham Winchcombe, Cleeve 6 16
HALLING Thomas HALLING HALLING LEECH 1858 Cheltenham Winchcombe, Cleeve 6 17

These are the baptisms that I think Nicola referred to in her OP

from ancestry ...........

Gloucestershire, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1913

Name: John Halling
Baptism Date: 8 Aug 1858
Parish: Beckford, Gloucestershire, England
Father: James Halling
Mother: Ann Halling
Register Type: Bishop's Transcripts


Name: Thomas Halling
Baptism Date: 1 Aug 1858
Parish: Beckford, Gloucestershire, England
Father: James Halling
Mother: Ann Halling
Register Type: Bishop's Transcripts

from the images:-

father's occupation:- Labourer

and yes, it does say "Ann" on both of them

Note that they were baptised on different days, 1 week apart.

Interestingly, the Minister's name is written out in full on John's entry .... W.P Fawkner Offg. Minister ......... but only the initials are seen on Thomas' ......... W.P.F.



I wonder if Jane actually had two names Ann Jane, OR could Ann have been a "pet" name for her?

Mary's baptism is also shown with mother's name Ann

Gloucestershire, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1913

Name: Mary Charlotte Halling
Baptism Date: 6 Jul 1856
Parish: Beckford, Gloucestershire, England
Father: James Halling
Mother: Ann Halling
Register Type: Bishop's Transcripts

from image:-

Father occupation:- Labourer

for comparison ..........

Gloucestershire, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1913

Name: William Halling
Baptism Date: 2 May 1852
Parish: Beckford, Gloucestershire, England
Father: James Halling
Mother: Jane Halling
Register Type: Bishop's Transcripts

Name: Ann Halling
Baptism Date: 14 May 1854
Parish: Beckford, Gloucestershire, England
Father: James Halling
Mother: Jane Halling
Register Type: Bishop's Transcripts

from images:-
Father's occupation:- Labourer

from ancestry

Gloucestershire, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1938

Name: James Halling
Birth Year: abt 1824
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 15 Apr 1847
Age: 23
Spouse: Jane Leech
Father: Betsy Halling
Event Type: Marriage
Parish: Dumbleton, Gloucestershire
Parish as it Appears: Dumbleton
Register Type: Parish Registers

what a mess was made of the Parish Register entry!! Including the name of Jane's father written first as John Leech, then crossed out and replaced with William Leech

BUT one of the witnesses was ANN Hallings, presumably James' sister.


Jane's baptism shows her with only 1 forename

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name: Jane Leech
Gender: Female
Race: White
Birth Place: Broadway, Worcester, England
Baptism Date: 24 Feb 1822
Baptism Place: Broadway, Worcester, England
Father: William
Mother: Charlotte
FHL Film Number: 350486
Reference ID: Pg 156

Mary's birth registration shows Leech as mother's maiden name ............

Gloucestershire BMD Indexes

HALLING Mary C HALLING HALLING LEECH 1856 Cheltenham Winchcombe, Cleeve 5 253


Strange ............... the only other mmn Leech that I can see as registered on that site is James in 1848..........

HALLING James HALLING HALLING LEECH 1848 Cheltenham Winchcombe, Cleeve 3 276

http://gfhs.org.uk/

(Gloucestershire Family History Society)


http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/archives/article/107703/Archives-Homepage

(Gloucestershire Archives)


(might be worth contacting above, they might know of any issues with 1861, although 'Missing Pieces' not showing for Glos. Find My Past. Might be that you have to visit Archives, and search through places!.

Chris :)

edits

HAWLING Samuel HAWLING HAWLING LEACH 1850 Cheltenham Winchcombe, Cleeve 3 464

Births Jun 1850 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------
Hawling Samuel Winchcomb 11 527


HAWLING William HAWLING HAWLING LEECH 1852 Cheltenham Winchcombe, Cleeve 4 232

Births Jun 1852 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------
Hawling William Winchcomb 6a 335


HAWLING Ann HAWLING HAWLING LEECH 1854 Cheltenham Winchcombe, Cleeve 4 489

Births Jun 1854 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------
Hawling Ann Winchcomb 6a 356


Births Dec 1862 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------
HAWLING George Tewkesbury 6a 402

1858

Halling John Winchcomb 6a 321
Halling Thomas Winchcomb 6a 321


Marriages Jun 1847 (>99%)

Halling James Winchcombe 11 633 Scan available - click to view
Leech Jane Winchcomb 11 633

Thanks everyone. I didn't know there were so many children! Sylvia mentions above about seeing the census records:

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Household Information

Street Dumbleton Mill
Parish Dumbleton
City
County Gloucestershire
Country England
House Number
House Name
Registration District Winchcombe
Town
Record set 1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Collections from Great Britain

Person 1

First Name James
Last Name Halling
Birth Year 1824
Age 17
Birth County Gloucestershire
Gender Male
Occupation
Archive Reference HO107
Book 7
Folio 5
Page 4
Piece Number 360

Person 2

First Name Jane
Last Name Leech
Birth Year 1822
Age 19
Birth County
Gender Female
Occupation
Archive Reference HO107
Book 7
Folio 5
Page 4
Piece Number 360

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Household Information

Street
Parish Beckford
City
County Gloucestershire
Division Of County Eastern
Ecclesiastical District
Enumeration District 7
Hamlet
House Name
House Number
Parliamentary Borough
Municipal Ward
Registration District Winchcomb
Category Census, Land & Surveys
Record set 1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Collections from Great Britain

Person 1

First Name James
Last Name Hauling
Birth Year 1825
Age 26
Birth Place England
Birth Town Buckland
Birth County Gloucestershire
Relationship To Head of Household Head
Gender Male
Occupation Shepherd
Folio 291
Page 14
Piece Number 1971
Source
Archive Reference HO107

Person 2

First Name James
Last Name Hauling
Birth Year 1849
Age 2
Birth Place England
Birth Town Beckford
Birth County Gloucestershire
Relationship To Head of Household Son
Gender Male
Occupation
Folio 291
Page 14
Piece Number 1971
Source
Archive Reference HO107

Person 3

First Name Jane
Last Name Hauling
Birth Year 1822
Age 29
Birth Place England
Birth Town Broadway
Birth County Worcestershire
Relationship To Head of Household Wife
Gender Female
Occupation Shopkeeper
Folio 291
Page 14
Piece Number 1971
Source
Archive Reference HO107

Person 4

First Name Samuel
Last Name Hauling
Birth Year 1851
Age 0
Birth Place England
Birth Town Beckford
Birth County Gloucestershire
Relationship To Head of Household Son
Gender Male
Occupation
Folio 291
Page 14
Piece Number 1971
Source
Archive Reference HO107

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Household Information

Street Teddington Hands Tarn
Parish Overbury
Town
City
County Gloucestershire
Country England
Ecclesiastical District
Enumeration District 2
Municipal Ward
Parliamentary Borough
Registration District Tewkesbury
Category Census, Land & Surveys
Record set 1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Person 1

First Name George
Last Name Hawling
Birth Year 1863
Age 8
Birth Place England
Birth Town
Birth County Worcestershire
Gender Male
Relationship To Head of Household Son
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 21
Page 2
Piece Number 2677

Person 2

First Name James
Last Name Hawling
Birth Year 1824
Age 47
Birth Place England
Birth Town
Birth County Gloucestershire
Gender Male
Relationship To Head of Household Head
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 21
Page 2
Piece Number 2677

Person 3

First Name Jane
Last Name Hawling
Birth Year 1822
Age 49
Birth Place England
Birth Town
Birth County Worcestershire
Gender Female
Relationship To Head of Household Wife
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 21
Page 2
Piece Number 2677

Person 4

First Name Jane
Last Name Hawling
Birth Year 1865
Age 6
Birth Place England
Birth Town
Birth County Worcestershire
Gender Female
Relationship To Head of Household Daughter
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 21
Page 2
Piece Number 2677

Person 5

First Name Thomas
Last Name Hawling
Birth Year 1859
Age 12
Birth Place England
Birth Town
Birth County Gloucestershire
Gender Male
Relationship To Head of Household Son
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 21
Page 2
Piece Number 2677

Person 6

First Name Charles
Last Name Peart
Birth Year 1856
Age 15
Birth Place England
Birth Town
Birth County Gloucestershire
Gender Male
Relationship To Head of Household Boarder
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 21
Page 2
Piece Number 2677


1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census



Household Information

Street
Parish Teddington (Worcs)
Town
City
County Gloucestershire
Country England
Registration District Tewkesbury
Category Census, Land & Surveys
Record set 1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Collections from Great Britain

Person 1

First Name Arthur
Last Name Hauling
Birth Year 1881
Age 0
Birth Place England
Birth Town Teddington
Birth County Worcestershire
Relationship To Head of Household Grand Son
Gender Male
Occupation
Condition Single
Archive Reference RG11
Folio 36
Page 4
Piece Number 2580

Person 2

First Name James
Last Name Hauling
Birth Year 1825
Age 56
Birth Place England
Birth Town
Birth County Worcestershire
Relationship To Head of Household Head
Gender Male
Occupation General Lab
Condition Married
Archive Reference RG11
Folio 36
Page 4
Piece Number 2580

Person 3

First Name Jean
Last Name Hauling
Birth Year 1823
Age 58
Birth Place England
Birth Town Broadway
Birth County Worcestershire
Relationship To Head of Household Wife
Gender Female
Occupation
Condition Married
Archive Reference RG11
Folio 36
Page 4
Piece Number 2580

Person 4

First Name Jean
Last Name Hauling
Birth Year 1865
Age 16
Birth Place England
Birth Town Teddington
Birth County Worcestershire
Relationship To Head of Household Daughter
Gender Female
Occupation General Servant (Out Of Employ)
Condition Single
Archive Reference RG11
Folio 36
Page 4
Piece Number 2580

I'm searching and searching for that 1861 census but so far no luck! :-(

A person can be missed off the census - there's really no way of tracking this.

A census book can go missing, in whole or in part. You can find out what;s known as follows:
If you go to http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ then you can search for:
rg9 AND Gloucestershire AND missing [no hits] or:
rg9 AND Worcestershire AND missing
There was one missing double sided sheet in Kingswinford (Staffs),
and one double sided sheet left blank in Bromsgrove
[rg9 identifies the 1861 census - sim rg10 thru rg14 identify 1871 thru 1911]

A census page can get missed during digitization by, say, Ancestry or FMP.
Here's Dorah Pearson from an 1861 page missed by Ancestry
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7YK-BFZ
Piece/Folio 3164 / 101 Page Number 7
Normally, when I get a name from FS/FMP that I can't find on Ancestry (or vice versa), I look up the whole page of names via the census ref, and guess at the mistranscription, but in this case, there's no hits; also, paging thru the images, one sees the page has been skipped on Ancestry.
This is very rare, but when there's a million images per census, it will happen


The most common reason for failing to find someone is mistranscription.
Say I'm looking in 1901 for Sarah Fleming w/o Mark, b Kirkby Lonsdale, Westmorland. Just lookibg for Sarah w/o Mark, b Westmorland gets 4 hits on Ancestry incl Sarah Jenning.

There is one other alternative - occasionally, one finds inmates of workhouses, asylums, prisons, etc , identified just by their initials.