Genealogy Chat

Iam searching for details of following family.

1901 Census
Clarke Street Liverpool
John Carney 27
Catherine Carney nee Carney 29
Michael 9
Daniel 7
Mary A 5
John 2
Catherine 2months.

By 1911 the parents have died along with daughter Catherine.

1911 Living in Norton Street Liverpool with uncle Peter Carney and his family

Michael Carney 19
Daniel 17
Mary Ann 15
John 11
James 7

I have found all the records for Michael and Daniel they were both killed in 1916 in
France, Mary Ann I think married in 1929.I have posted a search above for her.

I am looking for any information on John 1899c and James 1904c

Thank you

could this be john's death


Deaths Jun 1977 (17%)

CARNEY JOHN 22MY1899 KNOWSLEY 36 31

Just a possibility - John Carney's a very common name in Liverpool area.

Handwritten note in margin says "Died at sea", and his name is scored out - because he didn't arrive in Liverpool, I suppose.



John Carney
in the UK, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
Name:
John Carney
Birth Date:
abt 1898
Age:
25
Port of Departure:
New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date:
10 Dec 1923
Port of Arrival:
Liverpool, England
Ship Name:
Adriatic
Shipping line:
White Star Dominion Line
Official Number:
113476

Intended address in UK: 811 Hampton Road, Liverpool.



There are a few records of people of the right approx. age, named John Carney, going from UK to USA before that - one has an address in Belfast, another is from Uddingston.

This one has no address, so is a possibility (and a sheer guess):

John Carney
in the UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960
Name:
John Carney
Gender:
Male
Age:
21
Birth Date:
abt 1898
Departure Date:
23 Dec 1919
Port of Departure:
Liverpool, England
Destination Port:
New York, USA
Ship Name:
Celtic
Shipping line:
White Star Line
Official Number:
113476
Master:
A Hambleton


There's also a Mary Carney travelling on that ship, though doesn't appear to be with John.
She's a domestic, he's a fitter.

Thank you both for your reply.


Its possible John went to sea as was common in Liverpool, I will have a look at the record. Maybe the address 811 Hampton Road could be a clue. I wonder if he died at sea would the death be registered at the Port of Destination ie Liverpool or from Port of Departure.

Just found on record of John Carney who died at Sea in 1923 he was age 43 so not my John Carney.

Are you going to get the birth certificates for John and James for exact dates of birth, to help in identification?

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php

(are their Births on above?)

Chris :)

I am helping the grandson of Michael Carney who died in WW1 1916 France along with his brother Daniel. He wanted to find details of his grandfathers War records which I have found both for Michael and Daniel.

I thought I would try and find what happened to the other siblings,his sister Mary I have found her family line with the help of Detective. I was trying to see if I could trace any info on John b 1898 and James 1905.

I looked on link above James shows 1905 and John 1899.

(James was also at 35, Peel Road 1917. B link elow from 'google' search, am sure you have probably seen)

http://www.merseysiderollofhonour.co.uk/get2.php?cwgc=75812

Chris :)

11 August 1917 - Liverpool Daily Post - Liverpool, Merseyside, England

Roll of Honour.
CARNEY - In loving memory of Pte Daniel Carney, who died of wounds received in action, August 12. 1916. Fondly remembered his Brother James. 35. Peel-road, Bootle.


10 August 1917 - Liverpool Daily Post - Liverpool, Merseyside, England

Roll of Honour.
CARNEY - In loving memory Private Daniel Carney, who died wounds received action August 12, 1916.

With a cheery smile and a wave of the hand,
With never a backwards glance,
He went out to do his bit for his land,
And fell in the great advance.

Fondly remembered by his Uncle, Aunt and cousins, 35, Peel Road, Bootle.

Hi Chris

Thank you for this information,no I hadn't seen this, I did find all his War records grave,effects form etc. I did see on his grave photo at the at the bottom it said remembered by your family of Peel Road Bootle.

I wonder why his brother Michael Carney is not mentioned he died the month before killed in action July 5th 1916, Daniel died in hospital in France. Michael was married with a 18month old son.

Presumably this is James's birth:

Births Dec 1905 (>99%)
Carney James Liverpool 8b 31

According to FreeBMD there was only one other James Carney born in that quarter of 1905, in all of England/Wales.

Therefore, this has a 50/50 chance of being his death:

James Carney
in the England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: James Carney
Birth Date: 3 Oct 1905
Date of Registration: Jun 1975
Age at Death: 69
Registration district: St Helens
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 37
Page: 0200.

(Or it may be the other James born in that quarter, as he was born in Prescot reg district, which includes St Helens.)

Lancsbmd, as Maureen says, shows a birth of John Carney in 1899, and none in 1898, but Freebmd also shows one in 1898:

Births Mar 1898 (>99%)
CARNEY John Liverpool 8b 5

Births Jun 1899 (>99%)
Carney John Newton Liverpool 8b 108

Maureen, where did you find the record of the John who died at sea, saying he was 43?

The passenger list says he was about 25.


But I agree with patchem - you need the birth certs to be sure of date of birth.

http://www.merseysiderollofhonour.co.uk/obits/index.php

(Michael on above)

Chris :)

On the passenger list for John Carney I turned over a few pages and at the end it showed Buried at Sea and he is named and listed as 43yrs.


Thanks for the search for the birth death of John,i will pass on what is found, Michaels grandson was looking for his grandfather and gt uncles War records which have been found,i was only interested as a Geneology Nut to complete the family ha.

Oh yes, I see on the first page of the passenger list, it does give his age as 43, very faintly in pencil. I think the transcriber mistook the age of the next person on the list to be John's age.

Daniel.....Doesn't mention mother being deceased only father.

http://www.merseysiderollofhonour.co.uk/get2.php?cwgc=75812


Related to the Thread.....
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/former-publican-appeals-echo-readers-11725491

Erin- agreed, the newspaper reports:

Liverpool Daily Post - Saturday 26 August 1916 & Liverpool Echo - Friday 25 August 1916
Private Daniel Carney (King's Liverpool Regiment) died of wounds. Second son of Catherine and the late John Carney. Was employed by messrs John Mariom & Company, Royal Liver Building and resided with his Uncle and Aunt at 35 Peel Road, Bootle.

eringobragh

I did wonder at this mention of late father,i presumed that as the children were residing with uncle and aunt in 1911 that both parents had died, found record for father. Daniels next of kin on WW1 records was originally his brother who died a month before Daniel it was then changed to his aunt Mrs Mary Ann Carney of Peel road,

I have passed all the info onto Michael grandson as in Liverpool echo link above