Genealogy Chat

You're welcome :-)

Thank you Kucinta---it was most generous of you. These Archives are expensive to access. I have managed to get a photo copy of it. Arfermo. :-)

Arfermo, I've messaged you a snip of the newspaper page Chris mentioned re Elsie.

Thanks Anysmum---I don't know where they began proceedings---or who did, although it looks like SHE was accusing her husband Frank of the misdeed--which is surprising to me, considering her reputation as 'A good time girl' , according to hearsay. I think I'll apply for the re-marriage certificate. Arfermo.

Hi Joan,

It sounds as though your case was contested. Was there nothing in the local paper about it?

My parents were all very "friendly" about it, adultery was admitted, so there was no legal argument and it probably cost whatever the basic charge was at the time.

I agree about destroyed records, but trying to fill the gaps is sometimes quite interesting.

Most of what was on my parents' divorce papers I already knew, apart from the fact that my sister and I were made Wards of Court!!

One thing that has occurred to me - BMD certificates are standardised for the whole country, and the place names etc are filled in by hand at the time. Divorce certificates though appear to have been printed individually by the various jurisdictions.

Mine are headed by the name of the Court and other official details, followed by a blurb about the divorce with gaps for filling in the names etc. There is then a large empty space (for other info I think) followed by more blurb with gaps for personal details. They are on what is now A5 paper and printed on both sides.

If I am right, then divorce papers from different jurisdictions may have different information, with some having more nitty-gritty than others.

My parents were divorced in 1951 and my father remarried in 1952. Both certificates are from England/Wales.

The Decree Absolute shows full details of the original marriage and also the reason for the divorce, including the name of the third party. The only details on the Decree Nisi that aren't included are the names of the children.

The certificate for his remarriage states "formerly the husband of X, formerly Y, spinster from whom he obtained a divorce". (X is my mother's married name and Y her maiden name,)

27 June 1942 - Liverpool Daily Post - Liverpool, Merseyside, England

Decrees Nisi were also granted in the following cases:-
Elsie Hilda Banton, Birchfields, Deganwy Road. Llandudno, against Frank Frederick Banton, storekeeper (adultery).

(if relating)

Chris :)

http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/

(or Find My Past, Genes Records, subscription needed)


http://remote.jerseyheritage.org/Details/archive/110179607

(for Jersey article ordering, also comes up on 'google' search)

DetEcTive---I think you're right, that is more likely , and a possible cheap and easy solution---thank you. Arfermo.

Sounds as if you need to buy the 2nd marriage cert. it will give her status ie widow (bigamous marriage) or divorced.

The surnames of Croft, Banton & Warde are all those she had used in her lifetime. She could have reverted to Croft when she seperated, then used Warde when they began co-habiting.

WOW--thanks Amokavid, I'm not too surprised about the work and research required to locate an actual case--but the cost? my word, even long after the event we get screwed it seems. I'm responding to a dim and distant family mystery, that crops up in conversations from time to time--and as I'm involved with the 'Family History Tree', I thought i'd have another go at this; but it sure isn't worth this cost. i have few answers to the application questionsThe couples involved lived ( and died) in different places, all over the country, and moved about constantly, so I've no idea of the scene of the ---application. I say Joan--do i read you correctly?--you have the exact certificate copies ?--and THE answers to my Questions ? DO TELL--Arfermo--(Philip).

Many thanks Janice. SO--'' Formerly, wife of---''. She may have divorced Elford then, and re-scheduled her will, because Elsie and Elford got married the previous September. But did Elsie divorce Frank? I'm surprised to read that Divorce record laws , are so restricted about availability, and yet have very short storage time. I'd have thought the ability to check up and guard against Bigamy, was in the PUBLIC interest. Arfermo. :-D

This is on the Jersey Heritage website:

Title:
Will and Testament of Marion Adeliza Titford, formerly wife of Elford Charlie Douglas Warde, of Ilkley Guest House, Green Street, St Helier and formerly of Seabright, Gorey, St Martin. Dated 05/06/1953.

The will is dated 1953 but I think she may have died in 1968.

Regarding the three names: perhaps she had taken/been using the name Warde before they were married.

Hello Argllgran--thanks for responding. Sorry for the brevity. I have only checked GR and Ancestry, without success. i couldn't find anything else online, without committing to membership fees etc. My aunt, Elsie Hilda Croft, Married Frank Frederick Banton in December 1916--Aston --6d.--825.. In September 1952, she married Elford Charles Douglas Warde, in --Worthing Sussex. HE died there in late 1967. She died there in 1985.But FRANK--had died in Sept, 1970, in Lichfield Staffs.
Elford Charles Douglas Warde--had first married Marion Adeliza Titford , 06/06/1912. London. I cannot trace her death, divorce, or remarriage. Elforde, MAY have been 'widowed' but Elsie wasn't. Elford's first wife Marion Adeliza Titford--seems to have disappeared from the registry lists. For Elsie and Elford's marriage--the entry for the would be- spouses Family name, say's ---'Croft ,Banton OR Warde' ? I have NEVER seen this kind of uncertainty written before---I guess the Wedding certificate will be interesting--does it say Banton--'Widdow'? or Croft, Spinster? :-|

her second marriage should indicate her marital status at the time .

most divorce records arent available .the parties get given a final divorce document and that is the latest record

our daughter wanted a copy of her divorce papers and was told the court documents was only held for ten years, her divorce was in the 1980,s

If you mean records online - they're only downloadable from 1858 to 1914. (That's for England & Wales).

Details here of what's available and where, and how to access it (as far as UK divorces are concerned):

http://tinyurl.com/hy4ezey


When you say the records can't be found, do you mean you can't find them online, or do you mean you have applied to the relevant authority, and they can't find them?

And which country are we talking about?

Are you sure the first husband didn't die before she married the second?

My aunt , now dead, married twice---but I cannot find evidence of a divorce---putting aside the one possible reason. Why would her divorce records not be found? Thanks. Arfermo. :-|