Genealogy Chat

Your earlier thread about this family, for helpers' reference -

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1362165

No, I have only a phocopy of the indenture form ,which is typed or printed , with the relevant bits added. JP and witnesses included.

I have found the childs baptism in Middleton and his father's burial at Blackley one year later .where they refer to Rostherne parish.
I have not found the marriage of his parents, nor the baptism of Elizabeth. Child of Richard and Catherine. I do not have a copy of Elizabeth indenture ,only the summary of its content , made the same date as Peter's.

I believe the father Richard may have been born in the Rostherne parish about 1720.
Obviously need a suitable baptism and marriage to make a connection.

Thank you

No, I have only a phocopy of the indenture form ,which is typed or printed , with the relevant bits added. JP and witnesses included.

I have found the childs baptism in Middleton and his father's burial at Blackley one year later .where they refer to Rostherne parish.
I have not found the marriage of his parents, nor the baptism of Elizabeth. Child of Richard and Catherine. I do not have a copy of Elizabeth indenture ,only the summary of its content , made the same date as Peter's.

I believe the father Richard may have been born in the Rostherne parish about 1720.
Obviously need a suitable baptism and marriage to make a connection.

Thank you

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/eef157ba-6ce9-4ce8-991b-d200f6912ec1

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/7fd82273-ad3a-49cd-8590-0c2b7bccd8bb

(have you seen the actual Indentures?)

Chris :)

(and past reference)

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1362165

Baptism: 21 Nov 1756 St Leonard, Middleton, Lancashire, England
Peter Massey - Son of Richd. Massey & Katharine, his w.
Abode: Blackley
Occupation: Weav.
Source: LDS Film 1545698


http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/51023.4/mb.ashx

(also on above)

http://tinyurl.com/hb8e6fk

Poor Law Records can provide invaluable information about your ancestors and are important for the study of changes through time in the poor relief system and socio-economic history. The administration of the poor law can be divided into three periods:

The Old Poor Law: pre-1834 the poor were the responsibility of the parish or township.
The New Poor Law: between 1834-1930 the poor were the responsibility of the Poor Law Unions.

Here's something about Lancashire - also mentions apprenticing children of paupers to try to prevent them being a burden when they grew up.

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Wigan/poorlaw

From the link I posted earlier:

"The workhouse movement began at the end of the 17th century with the establishment of the Bristol Corporation of the Poor, founded by Act of Parliament in 1696.[47] The corporation established a workhouse which combined housing and care of the poor with a house of correction for petty offenders. Following the example of Bristol, some twelve further towns and cities established similar corporations in the next two decades. As these corporations required a private Act, they were not suitable for smaller towns and individual parishes.

Starting with the parish of Olney, Buckinghamshire in 1714 several dozen small towns and individual parishes established their own institutions without any specific legal authorization. These were concentrated in the South Midlands and in the county of Essex. From the late 1710s the Society for the Promotion of Christian Knowledge began to promote the idea of parochial workhouses. The Society published several pamphlets on the subject, and supported Sir Edward Knatchbull in his successful efforts to steer the Workhouse Test Act through parliament in 1723.[48] The act gave legislative authority for the establishment of parochial workhouses, by both single parishes and as joint ventures between two or more parishes. More importantly, the Act helped to publicise the idea of establishing workhouses to a national audience. By 1776 some 1,912 parish and corporation workhouses had been established in England and Wales, housing almost 100,000 paupers. "


I don't know about Lancashire in particular .

The area of High Leagh are had two chapels I believe originally-- belong to two different families of Leigh and were built as part of their estate Halls, for family , friends, and retainers.

I suppose they became used by the locals as a chapel of ease, then demolished and rebuilt at a later date...

Do you think that 1760 was too early for Workhouses in general, and might have been almshouses?
Or perhaps they stayed where they were in a cottage /shack/whatever, and got paid parish relief.?

Elizabeth Massey

England Births and Christenings

Name Elizabeth Massey
Gender Female
Christening Date 1754
Christening Place GREAT BUDWORTH, CHESHIRE, ENGLAND
Father's Name Wm Massey

Re what would happen to a widow -

There might have been a workhouse in the area, if there were no family members who could help, and if she couldn't carry on her husband's business.

Info re the Poor Law and workhouses:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Poor_Laws#Old_Poor_Law

http://www.localhistories.org/povhist.html

Just been having a look around, not seeing anything definite.

However, there is a picture of St John's parish Church in HIGH LEGH if you google. I've never seen a church quite like it - beautifully different.

It's not the one where Peter would have been baptised (too new), more likely that would have been St Mary's Chapel which dates from 1581, but has been restored since.

Both are Listed buildings.

I had totally forgotten about nail ,pin and chain makers .I wonder what she did as an adult. If, she grew up.
I suppose it was more moulding than beating things into shape.

The family seem to have moved around a bit before the father's death. I cannot find any further information except he was a weaver with some association with the Rostherne parish I would guess he was born about 1725. As was the mother . Catherine . They seem to have been in north Manchester before his death.

Of course Apprenticeships could be anywhere so he may have been apprenticed out of his home area in the early years of his life too.


.

I Google searched Women as blacksmiths and found an old question on the net.
Some of it is in America, but there is mention too of UK women retaining a husband's business and also working on making chains.

http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/42342-historical-documentation-of-women-blacksmiths/

I have found on line reference to an Elizabeth Massey and her brother Peter - Indentures raised by the parish council - of High Leigh in Cheshire, to their step father Bradley Pass, a blacksmith in High Leigh

The boy was baptised it seems at St Leonards, Middleton, Lancs, 21/11/1756.

A year before his father died - who is buried at St Peter .Blackley. 15/11/1757.

I guess that Elizabeth was born a few years earlier.

At the time of the Indenture Peter is 7-8 and it is for 11 years. So he will be 18 at the end of the apprenticeship.?

Two questions please=.

Q1.
I cannot find the baptism for Elizabeth, and why would she be apprenticed to a Black Smith, and her step father at that?

Q2. What would happen to a widow in the seven years between her husbands death and her remarriage in 27.06.1764 taking into account the small children?
What were her alternatives?
Did locations and relatives play a part in this? I am thinking of resettlement and removal acts of this period..

thank you for suggestions.