Genealogy Chat

I have had come into my possession a family photograph which I believe was taken in the early 1900s. There is a husband and wife both aged about middles 20s with their two children aged about 2 and 4 years old. The photograph was taken at a photographers at 374 George Street, Sydney. ( Guess Australia).

This photograph was sent to my great uncle William Grover who lived in the Vauxhall area of London.

On the back of the photograph has been written "To Mr, Grover with kind regards from A & A Ralph and family"

I would love either to know more or re-unite the photograph with the family.

Any suggestions would be apppreciated

Are the children boys or girls, or one of each?

If "early 1900's" could be stretched to mean late 1930's, according to a tree on Ancestry there was a family in Sydney which might perhaps fit the bill.(But it's only a possibility.)

Albert Ralph 1906-74 married Alice Muriel Anderson 1910-83, in Sydney, and they had a daughter born Sydney 1936 and a son born Sydney 1937. The son sadly died 1938, and they had two more daughters, 1940 and 1943


EDIT: No probably not - see next post, re Talma & Co.

Having Googled the address, I see there's a 374 George Street, Sydney, in Nova Scotia., as well as one in Australia.

If the photographer was Talma Studios, then it was Australia.

http://www.lib.cam.ac.uk/rcs_photographers/entry.php?id=443

If that link is correct in saying the studio was active until c 1912, then forget the family I mentioned above.

Hello ArgyllGran.

Thanks for info. It was Talma Studios so is Australia. Think (but only think) 1930's is too late, although do think the eldest child is a boy and the youngest a girl judging from the hair and clothing. I also feel that if they knew my great aunt and uncle there is a UK connection in the friendship as neither of my relatives went to Australia and thus must have been known to Mr Ralph in the UK

http://www.woronoracemetery.org.au/finding-loved-ones

(looking at above, got a feeling it could relate to Marriage below)


http://tinyurl.com/hkphvol

(Newspaper Funeral Notice, from below)

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/search?adv=y


Marriages Sep 1909 (>99)
-----------------------------------------------------------
BROWN Lilian Bessie Southwark 1d 71
EVERETT Amy Grace Southwark 1d 71


https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search?7

(Deaths on above, Parents look to Match Marriage (London, Ancestry)


1911 (Find My Past)
Albert Walter Ralph Head Married Male Bricklayer (Gas Works) 26 1885 Southwark
Amy Grace Ralph Wife Married Female - 22 1889 Southwark
Ronald Walter Ralph Son - Male - 0 1911
Address 13 Mayall Road Brixton Sw
Parish Lambeth
Census reference RG14 PN2094 RG78PN72 RD25 SD4 ED45 SN227

Chris :)

(no idea, was just a stab!)

(not too far from Bonnington Square, Vauxhall area, if you mean William and Alice Grover (Shinn), by any chance)


Edits

Births Mar 1911 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------
Ralph Ronald W Lambeth 1d 429


Births Sep 1912 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------------
RALPH Sidney A Everett Lambeth 1d 569

Hello. Think that's the connection as my great Aunt and Uncle lived in Bonnington Square. Alice was my maternal grandmother's sister.

????????????????

Ronald's name is spelled differently

UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960

Name: Mrs Amy Ralph
Gender: Female
Age: 24
Birth Date: abt 1889
Departure Date: 11 Jan 1913
Port of Departure: London, England
Destination Port: Sydney, Australia
Ship Name: Norseman
Search Ship Database: Search for the Norseman in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping line: The Aberdeen Line
Official Number: 110663
Master: G Berry

Occupation:- Housewife
Travelling with Master Rowland age 1 and Master Albert age 2 mnths


Albert is not there. He must have gone earlier, but I can't find him.

Going on the name and address that you give, just posting this as a possible?

Grover Household (3 People)
35 Bonnington Square , Lambeth, London, England

William C Grover 02 Jul 1878 Male Foreman Retort Setter So Met Gas Company Married 219 1
Rhoda A Grover 05 Jan 1883 Female Housewife Married 219 2
Jack W Grover 07 Jul 1916 Male Canvas Strainer For ? Single 219 3

Albert travelling without family:

Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists, 1839-1923

Name: Mr Albert Ralph (Bricklayer)
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
Age: 27
Arrival Date: 27 May 1912
Arrival Port: Sydney, Australia
Departure Port: Antwerp
Ship: Seydlitz
Nationality: British

Looks like occupations might have been the connection perhaps...

https://greenwichpeninsulahistory.wordpress.com/2013/08/01/the-gas-workers-of-south-london-the-co-partnership-scheme/

(interesting article about South Met. Gasworks history)

Chris :)

Edits (on below FMP, Father, William Ralph, Orchard St. Rainham, Kent. Mother, Jane. E (Eldest?) brother, Edward. Royal Navy, E sister. Mrs. Ottaway, Broadwalk, Rainham) Also, details of Marriage to Amy Grace Everett)


(Ralph Albert Walter 1885 — 1905 British Army Service Records Rainham, Kent, England)

Hello and thanks to all who have offered help in respect of my original query.

To clarify. The Grovers of Bonnington Square are my great Aunt and Uncle. I now feel pretty certain, after studying the information given, my great uncle and Albert Ralph were work colleagues. The Ralphs seem to have emigrated to Australia and had the photo taken and sent to the Grovers.

If this is correct this helps in respect of another photo I have of a very large family wedding some 40-50 people whose ages range from a babe in arms to the elderly, I now think the bride and groom are the Ralphs and the Grovers are guests.

I guess I now need to see if I can find descendants of the Ralphs in Australia as I think both photographs are their family members,

Any further suggestions in this respect you clever sleuths?!

If you check 'Search All Member Trees' (top right of page here, under 'Search') there is a member with Albert 1885 Rainham...


Births Mar 1885 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------
Ralph Albert Walter Milton 2a 941


1891 (Find My Past)
William Ralph Head Married Male 40 1851 Agricultural Labourer Sussex, England
Jane Ralph Wife Married Female 40 1851 - Canterbury, Kent, England
Arthur Ralph Son Single Male 17 1874 General Labourer Rainham, Kent, England
Ada M Ralph Daughter - Female 12 1879 - Rainham, Kent, England
Herbert J Ralph Son - Male 10 1881 - Rainham, Kent, England
Florence R Ralph Daughter - Female 9 1882 - Rainham, Kent, England
Albert W Ralph Son - Male 6 1885 - Rainham, Kent, England
Street Ivy Street
Town Rainham
Parish Rainham
County Kent
Registration district Milton
Archive reference RG12
Piece number 717
Folio 120
Page 9


Baptism
County Kent
Place Rainham
Church name St Margaret of Antioch
Register type Archdeacon's Transcripts
Register entry number 211
Baptism date 12 Jul 1885
Person forename Albert Walter
Person sex M
Person abode Rainham
Father forename William
Father surname RALPH
Father occupation Labourer
Mother forename Jane

http://www.freereg.org.uk/

Chris :)

(surname variant of Relf also!)

Baptism
County Kent
Place Rainham
Church name St Margaret of Antioch
Register type Archdeacon's Transcripts
Register entry number 988
Baptism date 10 Aug 1873
Person forename Arthur William
Person sex M
Person abode Rainham
Father forename William
Father surname RELF
Father occupation Labourer
Mother forename Jane

??? (from Ryerson Index)

RALPH Albert Walter Funeral notice 07MAY1935 Funeral late of Arncliffe Sydney Morning Herald 07MAY1935




And from http://www.woronoracemetery.org.au/finding-loved-ones

Albert W Ralph
Date of death:
05/05/1935
Date of Interment:
Type:
Burial
Location:
Anglican Monumental - Section Ag - 0014

(Same section etc as Amy who died 1971 - from link previously posted by Chris)

Death of son Ronald ??:

RALPH Ronald Walter Death notice 15NOV2007 Death 96 at The Bay Nursing Home, Blakehurst, late of Kingsgrove Sydney Morning Herald 19NOV2007

Son Sidney Albert, in 1935 living alone, but both parents are listed at a different address :

Sidney Albert Ralph
in the Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980
Name: Sidney Albert Ralph
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1935
Subdistrict: Arncliffe
State: New South Wales
District: Lang
Country: Australia
Residence Address: 40 Hannam street
Occupation: Railway Porter


1936,with mother Amy Grace and (wife ??) Mary McKinnon Ralph:

Sidney Albert Ralph
in the Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980
Name: Sidney Albert Ralph
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1936
Subdistrict: Arncliffe
State: New South Wales
District: Lang
Country: Australia


1943, Sidney & Mary, now without Amy:

Sidney Albert Ralph
in the Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980
Name: Sidney Albert Ralph
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1943
Subdistrict: Taree
State: New South Wales
District: Cowper
Country: Australia


1958 to 1980 , Sidney (now a signalman) & Mary living in Hurstville - same address all that time:

Sidney Albert Ralph
in the Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980
Name: Sidney Albert Ralph
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1958
Subdistrict: Hurstville
State: New South Wales
District: St George
Country: Australia


No adult child listed with them at any time.

Thanks ArgyllGran aren't you clever bet that's them

Thanks Chris. Don't think that is right Ralph although a mighty strange co-incidence is that the Relph's from Kent are related to me via my paternal sidee

Ronald W Ralph
in the Australia, Marriage Index, 1788-1950
Name: Ronald W Ralph
Spouse Name: Lillian C B Brown
Marriage Date: 1931
Marriage Place: New South Wales
Registration Place: Rockdale, New South Wales
Registration Year: 1931
Registration Number: 4994

Ronald Walter (storekeeper) and Lilian Clara (sometimes Claire)are at various NSW addresses 1933 - 43.
For several years they're manager and manageress of the Railway Ref. Rooms (refreshment ?) at Wallerawang.

1949, he's a railway officer, living at Bondi Beach with a Margery Winifred Ralph.
1954 -80, they're in Kingsgrove, and he's still a railway officer.
There's also a Gregory Charles Ralph with them from 1977.

From a Google search re Gregory, he's a registered sole trader living in WA 6110.

From a Whitepages search, there's a listing for G & R Ralph in WA 6110 - address and phone number - don't know if that's him or not.