Genealogy Chat

Hello and I hope someone can advise and help.

I am researching my brother in laws family, and have got quite a lot of information, but am stuck at his fathers, (Stanley J Meynell 1931 – 2009), father.

What I know so far. The Meynell family were brass founder owners in Wolverhampton.
Stanley's mother was Harriet Meynell, nee Watts, (1895 – 1983). You'll notice I didn't say mother and (Father).
Harriet married Walter Edward James Meynell (1855 – 1926) married in Oct 1923.

Harriet and Walter had a child in 1916/17, Edna Joyce Meynell, while Walter was married to his first wife Mary Ann, nee Gee, (1859 – 1923)
Harriet was a servant in the house at the time.

After Walter and Harriet were married they had a son Michael Meynell in 1924.

For some reason after Walter died Harriet moved to Preston and had a Tobacconist and sweet shop.
This is confirmed on her next 3 children's birth certificates as her place of residence and occupation.

Now the bit I'm stuck on, 3, 5 and 8 years after Walters death Harriet had three children all with the surname Meynell.
Ruth Meynell, (1929)
Stanley J Meynell, as above (1931 – 2009)
Norman D Meynell, (1933)
as on the birth certificates, with I might add no fathers name and no fathers occupation.

Now we realise it is almost impossible that anyone will put their hand up as the father or fathers, but does anyone know if that assumption is correct. ?????

I've thought of looking on the 1929 to 1933 voters register, but cant find one for that area. Just a thought that someone might have been living with Harriet at that time. ???

Failing that is there any way to find out anything about the tobacconist shop that Harriet had at that time. Google earth now shows it as a Citroen Showroom.

Any other thoughts that might give some closure to this line of the family would be appreciated, anything i`ve not thought about would be helpful.

Sorry its a long drawn out story.

PS to last post.

I`ve also looked at the 1939 register to no avail, but I believe Harriet may have moved back to the Wolverhampton area by then, but as it was the war years, ????.
I also believe that Stanley and his brothers and sisters were moved out to foster parents sometime during the war years.

Well her name was still Meynell , as a widow you don't change your surname

So any children she had would still be reg as Meynell

If the father acknowledged paternity then his name would be added to the birth certs

As no father was named and acknowledged then there's no name on the certs

It' will be a surmise on any father or father's names I,m afraid

Not seeing any of them on the 1939 register. But the children could be closed records still if their deaths haven't been picked up

Not seeing that birth for Edna Joyce either on freebmd

First name(s) MICHAEL
Last name MEYNELL
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1924
Age 44
Death quarter 4
Death year 1968
District LLANFYLLIN
County Montgomeryshire
Volume 8C
Page 312
Country Wales
Record set England & Wales deaths 1837-2007

Thanks for the prompt replies, and I agree with your comments re the father. Also I didn't find anything on the 1939 register either, and again not found Edna`s birth on bmd, but have that information from Stanley`s wife and son. Could still be a red herring as I am always sceptical of what people remember as I`m sure you agree.

Thanks once again for your thoughts.
I`ll keep looking, but ?????

If you go on google and put the name Stanley John Meynell you will be able to see his obituary. I've tried to copy it on to here but unfortunately I don't have the knowhow.
Hope it helps.
Pat

This one?


MEYNELL, Stanley

Originally printed on July 27, 2009 in the Express and Star.
Viewed by 9 Visitors.

MEYNELL Stanley John.
Passed away suddenly on July 13, 2009, aged 78 years. Beloved Husband of Evelyn, sadly missed by David and Vicky, Linda and Kevin and Grandchildren.
Funeral Service to take place at St Gregory's R/C Church on Friday, July 31,at 1.30pm, followed by Interment at Thimblemill Cemetery at 2.30pm.
Family welcome all to join them for refreshments at Thimblemill Recreation Centre after Funeral.


Name: Mr Stanley John Meynell
Gender: Male
Age: 78
Birth Date: 6 Jan 1931
Death Date: 13 Jul 2009
Residence Place at Death: Smethwick, Staffordshire, England
Postal Code District: B66

Printed 27th July, 2009.
Passed away suddenly 13.07.2009 beloved husband of Evelyn. Sadly missed by David and Vicky, Linda and Kevin and grandchildren. Interment at Thimblemill Cemetery, Smethwick, Sandwell, West Midlands.
Sorry I couldn't copy it but this might help.
Pat

???? But the middle initial is wrong if she was Joyce.

Name: Edna M Watts
Mother's Maiden Surname: Watts****************
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1916
Registration district: Birmingham
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume Number: 6d
Page Number: 406

Walter's marriage to Harriet. Are you sure it was Walter Edward James that married Harriet as the inials are wrong.

Name: Walter W J Meynell
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1923
Registration district: Chester
Inferred County: Cheshire
Spouse: Harriett A Watts
Volume Number: 8a
Page Number: 730

?
Could it be registered as Edna M.

Print transcription View image
First name(s) EDNA M
Last name WATTS
Birth year 1916
Birth quarter 4
Registration month -
Mother's last name WATTS
District BIRMINGHAM
County Warwickshire
Country England
Volume 6D
Page 406
Record set England & Wales births 1837-2006
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from Great Britain.

Could this be Walters probate? No mention of his present wife Harriet.

Walter Meynell of Dunstall Manor Dunstall Hill Wolverhampton died 26th Nov 1926 Probate London 25 March to Herbert Maynell Brass Founder.

Effects £17007 12s 10d.

Kay I have put that up.

Name: Walter Edward James Meynell
Age in 1911: 56
Estimated birth year: abt 1855
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
Civil Parish: Wolverhampton
Search Photos: Search for 'Wolverhampton' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: Dunstall Manor, Dunstall Hill, Wolverhampton
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Brass Founder Mainly Iron Founder secondly
Registration district: Wolverhampton
Registration District Number: 369
Sub-registration district: Wolverhampton Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 3
Piece: 17015
Household Members:
Name Age
Walter Edward James Meynell 56
Mary Ann Meynell 52
Cecilia Agnes Meynell 19
Edith Louise Meynell 18
Annie Beatrice Clarkson 22

So this would make him 71 years old when he married Harriet.

Wow thank you for all the replies.
Some of it I already have, the bit about Edna is intriguing, also there's an explanation about the W in Walters name, and a confusion about his age.

I will look at the replies tomorrow and reply. Unfortunately I have to go to work now. Someone has to delivery the parcels.

Will look again in the morning.
Thank you.

Have you looked for possible baptisms?

Fathers are sometimes named there even if not on a birth certificate.

Was Walter nearly 70 when he married Harriet ?

What address is this 'Tobacconist/sweet shop'?...

Exact Birthdate of Harriett?...

Chris :)

(references)

Marriages Sep 1888 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------------
GEE Mary Ann Chester 8a 568
Meynell Walter Edward J Chester 8a 568


Marriages Dec 1923 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------------
Meynall Walter E J Watts Chester 8a 730
Watts Harriett A Meynell Chester 8a 730


Deaths Dec 1926 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
MEYNELL Walter E J 73 Wolverhampton 6b 560


Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1886 to 1890

GEE Mary A MEYNELL Walter E J Chester, St Peter Cheshire West CE64/2/235

(above image on FMP)


Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1923

MEYNELL Walter Edward James WATTS Harriet Ann Chester, St John Cheshire West CE13/16/10

http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/index.php


Edits (Walter on below)

http://blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/GB149_P_4363/

(On the death of Walter Meynell in 1926, brother Herbert became Chairman and sole Managing Director until his death in 1944. His son Cuthbert, and Walter's son Charles were appointed directors in 1927)


Births Mar 1889 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Meynell Walter Charles E Shardlow 7b 492


1939 Register (Find My Past)

Vinery House Dunstall Avenue , Wolverhampton C.B., Staffordshire,
Walter C E Meynell 08 Feb 1889 Male Director Brass Foundry Married
Emily E Meynell 22 Feb 1887 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married

(also has below sister)

Marriages Sep 1941 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------------------
Iliff Richard M Meynell Wolverhampton 6b 1751
Meynell Mabel C Iliff Wolverhampton 6b 1751


West Midlands Birth indexes for the years: 1892

MEYNELL Edith L Harborne Sandwell Register Office

(Daughter on 1911)

http://www.westmidlandsbmd.org.uk/index.php


Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1929

MEYNELL Ruth Ann WATTS Preston West Preston PWEST/16A/21


Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1931

MEYNELL Stanley John WATTS Preston West Preston PWEST/18A/70


Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1933

MAYNELL Norman David WATTS Preston West Preston PWEST/21A/63

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi


Worth a check in 'Search All Member trees' (top right of page here, under 'Search') Ruth is there, shared by a Member...

Are you in touch with other family members? Norman's son (and possibly Norman) is on Facebook, perhaps other relatives can provide more information.

A lot of houses were demolished in Fylde .Road, Preston quite a few years ago for road works etc. The Citroen car showroom is where 274 was situated and before the car showroom it was a very large bicycle shop.
Pat (Prestonian)