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Just wondering if someone could help me with these two brothers
The two births below appear to be brothers
Therefore I am looking for what happened to the Robert born 1843 as the second would usually only be named Robert if the first died.
I cannot find any record of death for him and would like to know that and where he may be buried.
Robert Williamson
Born 22 Jul 1843
Father Thos Williamson
Father's Occupation Joiner
Mother Agnes Jardine (transcribed as Gardine in Ancestry but certificate clearly shows Jardine)
Address 6 Fawcett St HULME
Baptised 1 Oct 1843 St Peter's Square Presbyterian (Scotch Church)
Robert Williamson
Born 30th Nov 1845
Father Thos Williamson
Father's Occupation Joiner
Mother Agnes Jardine
Address 6 Fawcett St HULME
Baptised Feb 1st 1846 St Peter's Square Presbyterian (Scotch Church)
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Could this be the death of the first Robert? :-
First name(s) ROBERT
Last name WILLIAMSON
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year -
Age -
Death quarter 1
Death year 1844
District Manchester
County Lancashire
Volume 20
Page 491
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
or this one:-
First name(s) ROBERT
Last name WILLIAMSON
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year -
Age -
Death quarter 2
Death year 1844
District Manchester
County Lancashire
Volume 20
Page 358
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Kath. x
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Those 2 deaths look a bit too old Kath
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
Name: Age at Death (in years):
WILLIAMSON, ROBERT 64 Order
GRO Reference: 1844 M Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 20 Page 491
WILLIAMSON, ROBERT 66 Order
GRO Reference: 1844 J Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 20 Page 358
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? The 2 births from the GRO site - which is free to use
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
WILLIAMSON, ROBERT THOMAS JARDIN Order
GRO Reference: 1843 S Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 20 Page 263
WILLIAMSON, ROBERT JARDINE Order
GRO Reference: 1845 D Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 20 Page 790
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The death of Robert Thomas - GRO unable to distinguish age other than years. So the death at age 7 months
Name: Age at Death (in years):
WILLIAMSON, ROBERT THOMAS 7 Order
GRO Reference: 1844 M Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 20 Page 194
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Birth reg:
WILLIAMSON, ROBERT THOMAS mother's maiden name JARDIN
GRO Reference: 1843 S Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 20 Page 263
possible death reg: (maybe mistakenly recorded as aged 7 maybe only 7 months old)
WILLIAMSON, ROBERT THOMAS Age 7
GRO Reference: 1844 M Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 20 Page 194
birth reg for younger Robert
WILLIAMSON, ROBERT mother's maiden name JARDINE
GRO Reference: 1845 D Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 20 Page 790
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Hello thank you for you held that dose look like my robert thomas williamson that died 1844 age 7 months
That would be why the 2) child was also called Robert williamson who is my line
Thank you all again for you help
Goodnight susan
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Deaths Mar 1844 (>99%)
WILLIAMSON Robert Thomas Chorlton 20 194
If I click on "Chorlton", then the more info "here" link, I get to see a list of the civil parishes in Chorlton RD.
I also get:
CHORLTON REGISTRATION DISTRICT
Registration County : Lancashire.
Created : 1.7.1837.
Abolished : 1.1.1925 (to become Manchester South registration district).
Sub-districts : Ardwick, Barton, Chorlton upon Medlock, Didsbury, Gorton, Hulme, Openshaw, Rusholme, Stretford.
GRO volumes : XX (1837-51), 8c (1852-1924).
Registers currently held at : Manchester, Salford and Trafford.
[Baeton isnow held at Salford RD and Stretford is now held at Trafford RD - the rest are now held at Manchester RD.
The Sub-districts listed above are all those that were ever active in Chorlton RD.
The ones active in the 1840s were Ardwick, Chorlton upon Medlock, Didsbury, Hulme, and Stretford.
Using http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/local_bmd
In particular http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1844
Surname Forename(s) Age or Date of Birth Sub-District Registers At Reference
WILLIAMSON Robert Thomas 0 Hulme Archives+, Manchester Central Library HUL/10/499
and here's the matching new GRO hit:
Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1844
Surname Forename(s) Age or Date of Birth Sub-District Registers At Reference
WILLIAMSON Robert Thomas 0 Hulme Archives+, Manchester Central Library HUL/10/499
Just for illustrative purposes, here are some other random hits:
Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1843
Surname Forename(s) Age or Date of Birth Sub-District Registers At Reference
WILLIAMSON Henry Peter 0 Hulme Archives+, Manchester Central Library HUL/10/241
WILLIAMSON Sarah Ann 2 Hulme Archives+, Manchester Central Library HUL/9/401
WILLIAMSON Thomas 1 Hulme Archives+, Manchester Central Library HUL/9/49
and the matching GRO hits:
WILLIAMSON, HENRY PETER 6 Order
GRO Reference: 1843 D Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 20 Page 171
WILLIAMSON, SARAH ANN 2 Order
GRO Reference: 1843 S Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 20 Page 150
WILLIAMSON, THOMAS 16 Order
GRO Reference: 1843 M Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 20 Page 194
Here, we can exclude
WILLIAMSON, THOMAS 3 Order
GRO Reference: 1843 D Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 20 Page 144
and the matching LancsBMD hit
Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1843
Surname Forename(s) Age or Date of Birth Sub-District Registers At Reference
WILLIAMSON Thomas 3 Chorlton-on-Medlock Manchester CHO/10/92
but there might be occassions when this is more problematic.
LancsBMD gives the age at death in years - one can notice that when the age is less than 2 y.o., the new GRO gives the age in months.
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Lets look at the near-problematic Thomas:
Deaths Mar 1843 (>99%)
WILLIAMSON Thomas Chorlton 20 194
Deaths Dec 1843 (>99%)
WILLIAMSON Thomas Chorlton 20 144
Click on the page numbers to get all the names on that GRO page, then look up some of these names at LancsBMD.
I've ediited out the ones I didn't check and also appended the local ref:
Deaths Mar 1843 (>99%)
HARRIMAN Mary Chorlton 20 194 HUL/9/53
HESSLEWOOD Robert Chorlton 20 194 HUL/9/54
WILLIAMSON Thomas Chorlton 20 194 HUL/9/49
Deaths Dec 1843 (>99%)
HALIN Martin Chorlton 20 144 CHO/10/94
HORTON Simeon Fergus Chorlton 20 144 CHO/10/98
WILLIAMSON Thomas Chorlton 20 144 CHO/10/92
It's now easy to make the local assignments for the Thomas's, as I've done above.
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A local index might not be so helpful as LancsBMD - here's an 1844 death lookup at NorthLincs:
Surname Forename First initial Second initial Maiden name RegisterNumber EntryNumber
SMITH Elizabeth BR1/3 342
SMITH Ann EPW/1 499
SMITH John BR1/3 360
SMITH James W BR1/3 356
SMITH John BR1/3 420
SMITH James OF.2 197
SMITH William BR1/3 424
SMITH Joseph BR1/3 430
SMITH Male CR/2 145
The local index usually gives the local ref- they might not decode it for you, but it's not to hard to guess that:
BR1 (and BA1, WINT) are Brigg (Barton and Winterton) subdistricts from Glanford Brigg RD,
EPW and CR are Epwoeth and Crowle subdistricts from Thorne RD, and OF is Owston from Gainsborough RD
No ages, though. A local ref must give the suubdistrict, and the sequential volume number within that subdistrict for Bs and Ds (with churches in place of subdistricts for Ms), and either an entry number (in the range 1-500) or a page number (in the range 1-100) for Bs and Ds.
Knowledge of the subdistrict might resolve which rego was your guy.
Also a local index might index by year of birth, rather than year of registration.
This certainly makes more sense - I recently came across an 1885 birth.that was rego'ed in 1948q2 - obviously the second date I would check (it wasn't in the UK).
On the other hand, the GRO index does say where their copy of the rego is - the best one could have hoped for would be a footnote on the relevant 1885q2 index page saying "See J'48".
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1282010?page=6
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Thank you Mgnv for that information that will be very helpful :-D
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