Genealogy Chat

I think it likely that they were Elizabeth Robertson Anderson's children. Named for her parents? William and Jane (Jane and Jean are interchangeable in Scotland).

That 1951 marriage looks as though Celcilia was a spinster. Not sure when Scotlandspeople started indexing marriages using married and maiden surnames but they certainly did by 1955 (just checked my Aunt's second marriage).

To summarise. We know that there are 3 possible children for James.

Alice b. 1917 although no birth found. Named for paternal grandmother Alice / Alison
Jean Margaret. Named for maternal grandmother.
William. Named for maternal grandfather.

I would have thought if they were using the usual naming pattern, that there would have been a son named Robert for James's father?

Thanks RG- I know nothing of the area.

A James Johnston Porteous is on the London electoral register (with an Elizabeth Porteous) from 1934- 1939. But it now appears the Elizabeth Anderson that married a James Porteous in 1913 was living in Glasgow.

The children, Jean & William are living with James sister- which is odd if their mother was in Scotland. Perhaps the original Elizabeth Anderson who married in 1913 is not the mother of Jean and William?? Again- I think they at least need Jean's birth certificate.

That makes more sense AustinQ. I think you are correct and the area is right. Both Vinicombe Street and Havelock Street are in Hillhead area and that would make the Western Infirmary an obvious choice for Alice to do her nursing training as it is walking distance of both those streets.

Different names at 2 Vinicombe Street also makes sense as, from memory, these buildings were typical Glasgow tenements. There could be eight or even twelve different flats at that address each of which would be a separate household.

OK- I'm now doubtful the Elizabeth on the 1939 register is Elizabeth Anderson.

As we know Alice was already in Glasow nurse training.

Elizabeth could also have been in Glasgow.

In 1936 & 1937 her brother Robert (who registered her death), is living at 2 Vinicombe Street, Glasgow. It is a shared household with several different names living there- but on the list is Elizabeth Porteous and Sophia R Anderson.

(Elizabeth had a sister Sophia Robertson Anderson who died in 1937)
-----------------------

In 1939 and 1940 Robert is still at the same address- Sophia, of course isn't listed as she had died, but Mrs Elizabeth Porteous is also still at the same address- so it doesn't look likely she was on the 1939 register.

Grasping at straws -

maybe Alice was adopted, and therefore birth registered in another name?

Wild surmise:


ANDERSON
ALICE
F
1917
644/15 773
Hutchesontown


Possibly child of a sister of Elizabeth??
As I said - grasping at straws!

Sorry just read your last post again AustinQ. Alice was obviously in Glasgow in 1939, probably living in the nurses home.

Perhaps the divorce was finalised early 1952 or perhaps even at the end of 1951. Odd thing is though that James divorce Elizabeth and there doesn't seem to be a third party involved.

I'll have another look at the deaths on Scotlandspeople for Porteous ms Anderson. Looked before but none jumping out as possible siblings for Alice.

I wonder where Alice was in 1939 as there are not closed records with James and Elizabeth.

On Ancestry there are lots of entries for Alice in the nursing registers:

Repository National Records of Scotland- 1955
Alice Porteous- 16 Havelock Street.
Date of registration: 27/ 10/1939
Qualifications: Western Infirmary Glasgow. A.E. -/10/39
---------------------------

In 1941 she's listed in the papers on the Midwives central board pass list.

She is again listed in 1942 for passing Certificate in Health visiting.

Both times she is listed as Alice Porteous, Glasgow

Oh yes- well found on that divorce. A little annoying as it's after the 1951 marriage- nothing is easy with this family!

I've already searched for a birth for Alice c1917- I couldn't find one. There may of course have been a few children- but Alice is the only definite child I see living with Elizabeth from 1945 (although there are others at the same address- looks to be a shared property).

I think you're right AG- Florence could do with Jean's birth certificate and James J death cert to progress accurately.

Thanks ArgyllGran. I don't think it really helps though. It's a bit unusual for there only to be one child born in the first 18 years of marriage though. Has a birth been found for daughter Alice?

Well found, RG.
That's still before 1951. (EDIT: Sorry, I meant "after" !)

Perhaps Florence's friend should also buy the 1951 marriage cert, to see if the groom was the same James Johnstone Porteous or not.

In addition to Jean's birth cert, for James's age - and James's death cert for his age, and wife's details.

Without the certs, much of what we think we've found is guesswork.

Divorce was 1952


CS258 Court of Session: Unextracted Processes, 4th arrangement 1935-1994
Country code GB
Repository code 234
Repository National Records of Scotland
Reference CS258/31765
Title James J Porteous v Elizabeth R Anderson or Porteous: Divorce
Dates 1952
Access status Closed
Location Off site
Description 3189
Level Item

AQ -
Yes, Portishead's in Somerset.

I wonder why Florence's friend is able to pinpoint 1967 - maybe she has a photo with that date?
Or maybe the year is a guess.

Maybe she's assuming the woman with James was Elizabeth, because Elizabeth was actually her grandmother. But it does look as if the person with James in 1967 or thereabouts was actually Cecilia.

If she's correct about 1967, James could have been in Portishead in the early part of the year, but died in Leith later on. Even if living permanently in Portishead, he may have gone to visit relatives in Edinburgh and died while there.

Or she may be mistaken about 1967.

Anything's possible!

I think the friend needs to buy James's death cert to see the details of wife, etc.

Still don't see Cecilia or her parents on censuses, but Mr Malaune is on the 1911 census summary, and Charlotte and Patrick Joseph Malaune are together in the 1920's, 30's ERs in Berkshire.

And there's the death of Charlotte as already mentioned, in Reading in 1940.

No sign of Cecilia, though.

EDIT:

Oh yes, here she is:


Cecilia Mallaune
in the London, England, School Admissions and Discharges, 1840-1911
Name: Cecilia Mallaune
Gender: Female
Age: 8
Birth Date: 25 Feb 1899
Admission Date: 25 Jun 1907
School: Stockwell College
Admission Place: Lambeth
Father: Patrick Mallaune
Notes: Stockwell College (0184) opened in or before 1861. Closed or reorganised in 1935/6




Cecelin Malanne
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Cecelin Malanne
Age in 1911: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1899
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Swansea, Glamorganshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Reading
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England
Street address: 101 Wokingham Road, Reading, Berks
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: School
Registration district: Reading
Registration District Number: 121
Sub-registration district: St Giles
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Household schedule number: 78
Piece: 6599
Household Members:
Name Age
Patrick J Malanne 46 - Main pipe layer, born camberwell
Charlotte Malanne 40 - Camberwell
Katherine Malanne 18 - Camberwell
Cecelin Malanne 12
Edna May Malanne 10 - Reading
Frances Malanne 7 - Reading [Francis - a son]

I might come back to this tomorrow.

It's a bit confusing as Florence said earlier that her friend didn't know her Grandparents as her father didn't return to England until 1965.

Then later she confirms her grandparents as James and Elizabeth and said they were living with her family in Portishead in 1967. (Is Portishead in Somerset??)

But the same year James dies in Leith- so if he was living with them, what was he doing in Leith? Did the 'Grandmother' move away too?

I'll start with a fresh head tomorrow!

Yes, you're right about the 1974 death, AQ - unless whoever provided the information didn't know her maiden name.
But you'd think Florence's friend's parents would have known - if they were still in touch with her at the time of her death, and had any input to her death registration.



EDIT:

Having said that, there's no record of the birth of a Cecilia Porteous in 1898 - 1900 in Scotland, nor in England / Wales.

GlasgowLass mentioned the 1957 divorce on 31 Oct @ 09:12, as being on a private Ancestry tree.


Private Member PhotosPictures
[This photo is hidden by the owner's request. You can request access by clicking here.]
Photo: Elizabeth Robertson Anderson & James J Porteous 1957 Divorce Record (Edinburgh)
Category: Portrait
Attached To: James Johnston Porteous (born 1888)

I don't know AG- it's certainly something to consider.

I'm not sure if I missed something- the year of divorce 1957- where did it come from?

If that 1974 death is correct, would it be listed under her maiden name too- I don't see another name.

Long shot for Cecilia's death - assuming the 1951 marriage to be for the correct James:

PORTEOUS
CECILIA
75
1974
730/ 810
Haymarket


That's also assuming she was alive in 1967, as Florence's friend thinks.

That death would mean a YOB of 1899, which would fit with Cecilia Malaune, but not with the DOB on the 1939 register.

Is it possible that the red and green pen alterations, and whatever is on page 10 of the 1939 record, are only partially correct? Perhaps when James died and his 1939 entry was updated, they assumed that his wife was still the same person, but had been named incorrectly, and changed it to Cecilia Elizabeth, but left first wife Elizabeth's DOB?

So if the 1951 marriage to Cecilia is the correct one, but James and Elizabeth didn't divorce until 1957, James must have committed bigamy.