Genealogy Chat

From FMP Krafft, J joined the Royal Rifle Company (HRRC) on 7/6/1879 and purchased his discharge 2/7/1885 at Portsmouth. I am pretty sure he is my gt grandfather but need his attestation papers. Any chance of someone looking him up at Kew for me, I am in New Zealand?

Sorry, typo, should be KRRC

You need a Premium Membership to view this image on Ancestry.

Name: J Krafft
Discharge Date: 14 Jul 1885
Regiment: Dep. KRRC.
Rank: Pte
Regimental Number: 4035

Any idea when he was born or where and his first name please?

When did he marry, please? Who was his wife?

The children of this family are in the poster's tree

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Oakfield Court Lodge, Camden Park, Tunbridge, Tonbridge, Kent, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
James R Krafft Head Married Male 35 1856 Essex, England Coachman Domestic Servant Transcription
Clara Krafft Wife Married Female 30 1861 London, Middlesex, England - Transcription
Albert J Krafft Son - Male 3 1888 Speldhurst, Kent, England - Transcription
Agnes D C Krafft Daughter - Female 2 1889 Tunbridge Wells, Kent, England - Transcription
Violet C Krafft Daughter - Female 1 1890 Kent, England


KRAFFT, ALBERT JAMES BRADLEY Order
GRO Reference: 1887 J Quarter in TUNBRIDGE Volume 02A Page 688 Order
KRAFFT, ROBERT BRADLEY BRADLEY Order
GRO Reference: 1887 J Quarter in TUNBRIDGE Volume 02A Page 688


KRAFFT, AGNES DAISY CLARA BRADLEY Order
GRO Reference: 1888 D Quarter in TUNBRIDGE Volume 02A Page 669 Order
KRAFFT, VIOLET CAROLINE BRADLEY Order
GRO Reference: 1890 M Quarter in TUNBRIDGE Volume 02A Page 687

Marriages Jun 1886 (>99%)
Bradley Clara Fulham 1a 375
KRAFFT James Richard Fulham 1a 375

This was James' second marriage - he is recorded as being widowed on the marriage cert, and his place of residence at the time was Halifax, Yorkshire.
Father's name Augustus Adolphus

James' first marriage

Name: James Richard Krafft
Marriage Age: 21
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1854
Marriage Date: 29 Jul 1875
Marriage Place: Burley, St Matthias, Yorkshire, England
Parish: Burley, St Matthias
Search Photos: Search for 'Burley, St Matthias' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: Augustus Adolph Krafft
Spouse: Harriet East

Name: James Richard Krafft
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1856
Age: 83
Death Date: 21 Oct 1939
Death Place: Sidcup, Kent
Burial Date: 25 Oct 1939
Burial Place: Sidcup, Kent, England
Cemetery: Sidcup Cemetery
Grave Number: E.337

Harriet also re-married, calling herself a widow.

So both of them lied to the respective vicars! lol!

Name: Harriet Krafft
[Harriet East]
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 33
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1854
Marriage Date: 18 Apr 1887
Marriage Place: Stand, All Saints, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: Stand
Search Photos: Search for 'Stand, All Saints' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: William East
Spouse: William Hilton

There was a child from the marriage

Name: Harriett Krafft
[Harriett East]
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relationship to Head: Daughter
Mother: Catherine East
Gender: Female
Where born: Sutton, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Sutton and Stoneferry
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address: Woodside Cottage
Marital Status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Laundress
Registration district: Sculcoates
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4746
Folio: 4
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
Catherine East 59
Harriett Krafft 27
Emily G. East 11
James W. Krafft 4
Thomas Richardson 66

Think this is the reference to FMP...

Kraft J — 1879 British Army Service Records

(4035. Attestation date 07 Jun 1879
Discharge date 14 Jul 1885)


http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/paying-for-research/

(there is above, if no offers come forward!)


Edits (saw below, if relating anywhere!)

13 April 1877 - London Evening Standard - London, London, England

WANT PLACES
GROOM, and to make himself generally useful : age 21; good character; country preferred. - J. R. Krafft, 1, Laurel Cottage, North street, Colchester, Essex.


12 June 1886 - Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer - Leeds

INFANTRY CHARGER for Sale.
Hansdome Bay Mare, 5yrs, 15.3 hands. good looking, unblemished, believed sound, perfectly quiet on parade, stands fire and band, carries a lady quietly, quiet in single and double harness, parted with for no fault; trial and veterinary examination allowed. - Apply to Coachman. J. R. Krafft, Longfield House, Halifax, Yorks.


(perhaps his employment related to below)


07 March 1885 - Leeds Times - Leeds, West Yorkshire, England

Mr. Thos. Birtwhistle, one of the proprietors of the Halifax Courier, died yesterday, at Longfield House. Halifax, aged 57. He had been in failing health some time.


(was probably below 4yrs earlier)


1881 (Find My Past)
Thomas Birtwhistle Head Married Male 52 1829 Halifax, Yorkshire, England Newspaper Propietor Employing 14 Men & 9 Boys
Sarah Birtwhistle Wife Married Female 44 1837 Halifax, Yorkshire, England Newspaper Propietor Wife
29, Akeds Road, Halifax, Yorkshire & Yorkshire (West Riding),



1871 (Find My Past) (Reference)
Essex, England Ann Croft Head - Female 42 1829 -
Essex, England James R Croft Son - Male 15 1856 (Shoeing smith)
Essex, England Agnes S Croft Daughter - Female 12 1859
Long Wyre Street Albion Court, St Botolph, Colchester, Essex,


Birth
NURSE, JAMES RICHARD -
GRO Reference: 1856 M Quarter in COLCHESTER Volume 04A Page 234


(his Son below)

Marriage: 8 Oct 1904 St Thomas, Radcliffe, Lancashire, England
James William Krafft - 28, Traveller, Bachelor, 155 Moss Lane
Alice Ann Sutton - 27, Spinster, 19 Allen St.
Groom's Father: James Richard Krafft, (deceased), Soldier
Bride's Father: John Sutton, (deceased), Collier
Witness: Herbert Morris; Mary Alice Sutton
Married by Banns by: Heber Marks, Vicar
Register: Marriages 1903 - 1914, Page 27, Entry 54
Source: Manchester Central Library

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html


https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/889541

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/732304

(can see from other relating 'Threads' also that this has been a puzzler!)

Thanks. The newspaper ads are new to me, so a great help. He was baptised with sister Agnes in 1866 naming Augustus Kroft as father. This is impossible as Gustav Adolph Kraft (from marriage 1856) was in Leipzig at the time of James' conception in Colchester. No father in James birth cert. To close the loop I really need confirmation that the James who enlisted in KRRC is the same one, I cannot see any alternative but need to be sure!

1939 register

Krafft Household (3 People)
16 Stanhope Road , Chislehurst and Sidcup U.D., Kent, England

James R Krafft 03 Jan 1856 Engineer Retired
Clara E Krafft 23 Aug 1860 Unpaid Domestic Duties
Florence A Krafft 14 Jan 1892 shopkeeper baby wear
Ref: RG101/1244C/014/33 Letter Code: CJQQ
© Findmypast Ltd

First name(s) James Richard
Last name Krafft
Birth year 1856
Age 83
Denomination Anglican
Residence 16 Stanhope Rd. Sidcup
Death date 21 Oct 1939
Death place Sidcup
Burial year 1939
Burial date 25 Oct 1939
Burial place Sidcup
Burial ground Sidcup Cemetery
Cemetery area Unconsecrated or General
Cemetery row E 3
Grave number 37
County Kent
Country England
Entry number 2195
Page number 2184
Document reference LASC/DA/2/15/4
Archive Lewisham Local Studies & Archive Centre
Record set Kent Burials
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Burials
Collections from England, Great Britain
North West Kent Family History Society

But could be a different james as this one is a mechanical engineer by 1901

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Cottage, Crown Street, Harrow, Harrow on the Hill, Hendon, Middlesex, England


James Krafft Head Married Male 45 1856 Colchester, Essex, England Mechanical Engineer
Clara Krafft Wife Married Female 40 1861 Hackney, Middlesex, England - Transcription
Albert Krafft Son Single Male 13 1888 Tunbridge Wells, Kent, England - Transcription
Daisy Krafft Daughter Single Female 12 1889 Tunbridge Wells, Kent, England - Transcription
Violet Krafft Daughter Single Female 11 1890 Tunbridge Wells, Kent, England - Transcription
Florrie Krafft Daughter Single Female 9 1892 Tunbridge Wells, Kent, England - Transcription
Gwendoline Krafft Daughter Single Female 5

edit no its the same one he changed occupations

Odd?
The record held on Ancestry is headed :
in the UK, Royal Hospital Chelsea Pensioner Admissions and Discharges, 1715-1925
This can only be viewed with a sub to Fold 3

However, I think that it will produce the same page that is available via FMP anyway.
Krafft J — — 1885 British Army Service Records

It's not a service record
It's simply an alphabetical list, which I assume refers to discharge from the military
J Krafft Jul 1885

Almost everyone else on the list has their regiment added to the next un headed column but J Krafft's column is blank.

3rd Quarter Jul 1885 ( handwritten at top of page)

Name... Page.. (Blank Column).... Remarks
Krafft J 69 - -


The ledger stretches out over 160 pages covering Jan 1885- Oct 1885

No front or rear cover is included with the images to clarify what the ledger is but, I "assume" it's a discharge list.
I don't know what the page No refers to as there is no link

Not sure if Ancestry have below Collection (as the FMP reference)

Series WO 121 - Chelsea: Pensioners' Discharge Documents 1760-1887


From Ancestry one, below info...

Original data: Royal Hospital, Chelsea: Disability and Royal Artillery Out-Pensions, Admission Books WO 116. The National Archives of the UK, Kew,

Chris :)

(hopefully the Research Service they have at NA, would be able to 'sort' something, lol)

With that 1906 Marriage of his Son, giving Father as Deceased!, and a Soldier, it does look like James senior could perhaps have been away serving somewhere 1881ish, as Son is with his Mother and Grandmother (Catherine East) 1881. Perhaps that was the last they knew...

Nothing proved though!...

The 1901 family is the same one. I also have documented occupations as manufacturer of lustre electrics and as master photographer from childrens' birth carts. All
I need is to find where he served overseas and to work out why he joined the army...and how he met Clara.....