Genealogy Chat

Yes, that was from Fold3 which I can't get into. I thought Essex was a mistake and you're probably correct that it should be Eccles. It's just the date is 1875 when he's married and on the 1871 census. I wonder if anyone has a subscription with fold3?

Alviegal - you wonder if confusing 2 families. your post includes the following -

>>>>>>> Birth Place: Barton, Essex, Lancaser <<<<<<<<

I wonder if that is actually Barton, Eccles, Lancashire

I saw Eccles on some of the originals of census and google brings this up -

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Barton_upon_Irwell,_Lancashire_Genealogy
23 Aug 2017 - Chapelry History. BARTON-UPON-IRWELL, a township and chapelry, in the parish of Eccles, hundred of Salford, S. division of the county of ...

Of course, it might still be someone different

Actually, I think I've found them - the name's probably Whittaker - so not relevant:

WHITTAKER, ROBERT mms WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1850 J Quarter in SALFORD Volume 20 Page 1004

WHITTAKER, MARTHA mms WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1847 J Quarter in THE SALFORD UNION Volume 20 Page 958

WHITAKER, MARGARET mms WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1842 D Quarter in THE SALFORD UNION Volume 20 Page 746

WHITTAKER, ELIZABETH mm WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1840 S Quarter in THE SALFORD UNION Volume 20 Page 732

WHITTAKER, THOMAS mms WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1837 D Quarter in SALFORD Volume 20 Page 466

??

George Whittaker
England and Wales Non-Conformist Record Indexes (RG4-8)
Name George Whittaker
Event Type Baptism
Christening Date 27 Oct 1832
Christening Place Pendleton, Lancashire
Father's Name Giles Whittaker
Mother's Name Mary Whittaker
Affiliate Publication Number RG4_0133

FMP has Daniel Smith with the Smethursts (had to find it via him)

This is who you're trying to decipher - but I can't make out more than below -
? ...............
? ...............
? George
? Thomas
Elizabeth
? Margaret dau
? Martha dau
Robert son 10 months

There's a very badly transcribed family on Ancestry in 1851. A lot of it seems to be guesswork, because the document is largely unreadable. The Ancestry transcriber has run several households together.

I'll post it as transcribed, with the relevant family marked.
Can anyone find it on FMP, maybe with a better transcription? (But hard to see how, in view of the state of the original record.)


Margaret
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Margaret
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Pendlebury
Gender: Female
Civil Parish: Pendlebury
Ecclesiastical parish: St Johns
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 10 [something]
Registration district: Salford
Sub-registration district: Pendleton
ED, institution, or vessel: 2b
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 10
Piece: 2222
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
Pendlebury 45 [ don't think there's anyone named Pendlebury]
Ann Pendlebury 36
Pendlebury 12
Pendlebury 7
(not transcribed)
William 15
Ellen 13
Samuel 7
Daniel Smith 43 - visitor , Royal Marines, born Pendleton [he's actually at the bottom of the previous page, two or three households before this one]

[Head of household is unreadable - could the surname be Ferguson ??] <<<<<<
Mary <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
George <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Thomas <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Elizabeth Pendlebury <<<<<<<<<<<< [not Pendlebury - surname just "ditto" on image ]
Margaret 7 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Martha 3 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Robert 10/12 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

(not transcribed)
Henry 5
(not transcribed)
Robert



I must admit, I can't see any Ferguson births to match the children - so probably just grasping at straws.

Are we confusing 2 different people perhaps?

Name: Richard Turner
Pension Admission or Examination Age: 40
Birth Year: abt 1835
Birth Place: Barton, Essex, Lancaser
Pension Admission or Examination Date: 10 Aug 1875
Regiment: 49 Foot
Rank: Pte
Regimental Number: 3637

Snap again Alviegal.

Not that it helps with who Margaret was .............

Could she have made up the Father Rowland?

The 1871/81/91 census as posted show Richard Turner to be born c 1843 in Barton

However, the marriage record shows him as aged 28 in 1864 so born c 1835/6

Is this him?

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Aldershot, Farnham, Hampshire, England

First name(s) Richard
Last name Turner
Relationship Head
Marital status Unmarried
Sex Male
Age 26
Birth year 1835
Occupation Private
Birth town Barton
Birth town as transcribed BARTON
Birth county Lancashire
Birth county as transcribed LANCASHIRE
Birth place (other) England
Birth place other as transcribed -
Street -
Parish Aldershot
City or borough -
County Hampshire
Country England
Municipal ward -
Parliamentary borough -
Registration district Farnham
Enumeration district -
Archive reference RG09
Piece number 431
Folio 31
Page 22

The Richard Turner in the marriage record would have been born c1836 if he was being truthful.

Would this also be too much of a coincidence? Marriage record has Richard in 49th Foot

British Army, Worldwide Index 1861

Country Great Britain
Record set British Army, Worldwide Index 1861
First name Richard
Last name Turner
Service number 3637
Rank Private
Unit or Regiment 49th Foot (Hertfordshire-Princess Charlotte Of Wales)
Regiment stationed at Portsmouth
Year 1861
National Archives reference WO12 / 6085
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Regimental & Service Records
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

Snap Alviegal !! Far too much of a coincidence me thinks

TURNER, GEORGE FERGUSON Order
GRO Reference: 1882 J Quarter in BARTON UPON IRWELL Volume 08C Page 658

TURNER, SARAH ANN FERGUSON Order
GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in BARTON UPON-IRWELL Volume 08C Page 667

TURNER, RICHARD FERGUSON Order
GRO Reference: 1874 M Quarter in BARTON UPON IRWELL Volume 08C Page 606

TURNER, MARTHA JANE FERGUSON Order
GRO Reference: 1868 S Quarter in BARTON UPON IRWELL Volume 08C Page 535

TURNER, JAMES FERGUSON Order
GRO Reference: 1867 M Quarter in BARTON-UPON-IRWELL Volume 08C Page 504


I think these are the births of some of their children. Can't find Thomas or William but all the rest seem to fit. Surely too much of a coincidence? Mother's MS is Ferguson though?

EDIT Sorry greyghost I see you're thinking along the same lines as me.

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Higher Croft, Barton upon Irwell, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Richard Turner Head - Male 27 1844 - Lancashire, England
Margaret Turner Wife - Female 26 1845 - Scotland
James Turner Son - Male 4 1867 - Lancashire, England
Martha J Turner Daughter - Female 2 1869 - Lancashire, England

-----------------------
???
Births for named children in 1871/81/91 census for above family - mmn FERGUSON, not Jones.

Haven't found an obvious registration for William 1876/7 or Thomas 1871/2

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:

TURNER, JAMES FERGUSON Order
GRO Reference: 1867 M Quarter in BARTON-UPON-IRWELL Volume 08C Page 504 Order

TURNER, MARTHA JANE FERGUSON Order
GRO Reference: 1868 S Quarter in BARTON UPON IRWELL Volume 08C Page 535

TURNER, RICHARD FERGUSON Order
GRO Reference: 1874 M Quarter in BARTON UPON IRWELL Volume 08C Page 606

TURNER, SARAH ANN FERGUSON Order
GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in BARTON UPON-IRWELL Volume 08C Page 667

TURNER, GEORGE FERGUSON Order
GRO Reference: 1882 J Quarter in BARTON UPON IRWELL Volume 08C Page 658 Order

No help with her father but this appears to be her.


Manchester Prison Registers 1847-1881 Transcription
Print View image Add to tree
First name(s) Margaret
Last name Turner
Age 22 Y 2 M
Gender Female
Birth year 1844
Birth place Ayrshire
Birth county Ayrshire
Event year 1866
When received date Apr 1866
Place Salford
County Lancashire
Country England
Date range 1863-1867
Locality of record Salford New Bailey Prison
Title of records Female Description Book

She was 5' 1/4", fresh complexion, brown hair, grey eyes. She lived in Tonge Lane, Middleton and was a factory operative. She was married with 1 child still living and had a scar in the centre of her forehead. She was convicted of stealing a shirt at Middleton and sentenced to 14 days hard labour. She was 9 stone 7lbs on admission and 9 stone 8 lb on discharge, Her religion is Ch and education is N. ( not too sure what these abbreviations are)

ScotlandsPeople only shows four Margaret Jones born in Ayrshire 1839-1850.

None of their fathers is named Rowland or similar.


Twelve in the whole of Scotland in that time frame - no fathers called Rowland.

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Higher Croft, Barton upon Irwell, Lancashire, England

Learn more
Print View image Add to tree
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
Richard Turner Head Married Male 48 1843 - Thread Polisher
Transcription
Margaret Turner Wife Married Female 46 1845 Ayrshire, Scotland -
Transcription
James Turner Son Single Male 24 1867 - Dyer
Transcription
Jane Turner Daughter Single Female 22 1869 - Winder
Transcription
Thomas Turner Son Single Male 19 1872 - Thread Polisher
Transcription
Richard Turner Son Single Male 17 1874 - Thread Polisher
Transcription
William Turner Son - Male 13 1878 - -
Transcription
Sarah Ann Turner Daughter - Female 11 1880 - -
Transcription
George Turner Son - Male 9 1882 - -

How do you know she was from Ayshire?

The marriage record as posted by safc doesn't suggest that.


EDIT:

Oh, I see. The 1891 census says Ayrshire:

Margret Turner
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Margret Turner
Gender: Female
Age: 46
Relationship: Wife
Birth Year: 1845
Spouse: Richard Turner
Child: James Turner
Jane Turner
Thos Turner
Richd Turner
Wm Turner
Sarah Ann Turner
George Turner
Birth Place: Ayrshire, Scotland
Civil Parish: Barton upon Irwell
Residence Place: Barton, Barton upon Irwell, Lancashire, England
Sub registration district: Barton
ED, Institution or Vessel: 14
Neighbors:
Piece: 3155
Folio: 18
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Turner 48
Margret Turner 46
James Turner 24
Jane Turner 32
Thos Turner 19
Richd Turner 17
Wm Turner 13
Sarah Ann Turner 11
George Turner 9


EDIT again:


1871 (Ancestry version) also says she's from Ayrshire.

Is this your family in 1881?

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Higher Croft, 33, Barton upon Irwell, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
Richard Turner Head Married Male 38 1843 Barton on Irwell, Lancashire, England Thread Polisher
Margaret Turner Wife Married Female 37 1844 Scotland Thread Polisher
James Turner Son Single Male 14 1867 Barton on Irwell, Lancashire, England Doffer (Cotton)
Jane Turner Daughter Single Female 12 1869 Barton on Irwell, Lancashire, England Scholar
Thomas Turner Son Single Male 9 1872 Barton on Irwell, Lancashire, England Scholar
Richard Turner Son Single Male 7 1874 Barton on Irwell, Lancashire, England Scholar
William Turner Son Single Male 4 1877 Barton on Irwell, Lancashire, England Scholar
Sarah A Turner Daughter Single Female 1 1880 Barton on Irwell, Lancashire, England -

If not could you please post a census that you have them on

hi
so would I be better finding out about her father Rowland jones to find out where in Ayrshire she lived previous to pendlebury .
thank you for all your help

Marriage: 20 Mar 1864 St Bartholomew, Salford, Lancashire, England
Richard Turner - (X), 28, Soldier 49th Regt., Bachelor, Barracks
Margaret Jones - 20, Spinster, Pendlebury
Groom's Father: Thomas Turner, Weaver
Bride's Father: Rowland Jones, Labourer
Witness: Thomas Tomkinson, (X); Hannah Tomkinson
Married by: James Moore
Register: Marriages 1846 - 1869, Page 148, Entry 296
Source: LDS Film 1786463