Genealogy Chat

Can anybody tell me whether the above married William Fox B1835 Sibertswold, whose parents were Michael and Jane or William Fox B1839 Shepherdswell, whose parents were David and Ann.
Emma married William Fox 13/10/1867 but can find no info on Williams parents in the census after their marriage.
Here's hoping.....

Is this the couple in the 1871 census? :-

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Denton Street Gattridge, Little, Denton, Dover, Kent, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

William Fox Head - Male 34 1837 - Kent, England
Emma Fox Wife - Female 24 1847 - Kent, England
Charles Fox Son - Male 2 1869 - Kent, England
William Fox Son - Male 1 1870 - Kent, England
Michael Fox Son - Male 0 1871 - Kent, England

Without buying the marriage certificate to get their fathers names, a very unscientific way to GUESS which William she married is the fact that they have a son they called Michael, so likely to be the first William you mention with parents Michael and Jane.

Buying the marriage certificate would be the best way to be sure.

Reference for the marriage certificate:-

First name(s) Emma
Last name Marsh
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1867
Registration month -

MarriageFinder ™
Emma Marsh married one of these people

>>>>>William Fox,<<<<< William Day

District Canterbury
District number -
County Kent
Country England
Volume 2A
Volume as transcribed 2A
Page number 1161
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005

EDIT - No need to buy the certificate. The image of the parish register is on Findmypast and William's father IS Michael Fox. Emma's father is Joseph Marsh. Marriage date is 0ctober 14th.

Emma was a 21 year old spinster, residence 32 Watling Street
William was a 32 year old widower, residence Womenswold
Witnesses are Michael and Harriett Fox.

Occupation of William and both fathers is Labourer.

Kath. x

ok ta. Will accept that it is probably Michael.
Thanks.

????????

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Church Hill, Sibertswold, Dover, Kent, England

Michel Fox Male 35 1806 Kent, England Transcription
Jane Fox Female 30 1811 Kent, England Transcription
Ann Fox Female 11 1830 Kent, England Transcription
George Fox Male 9 1832 Kent, England Transcription
Jane Fox Female 7 1834 Kent, England Transcription
William Fox Male 5 1836 Kent, England Transcription
Michel Fox Male 3 1838 Kent, England Transcription
Emmar Fox Female 0 1841 Kent, England

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Butter Street, Sibertswold, Dover, Kent, England

Michael Fox Head Married Male 45 1806 Farm Labourer Sibertswold, Kent, England Transcription
Jane Fox Wife Married Female 43 1808 - Sibertswold, Kent, England Transcription
George Fox Son Unmarried Male 20 1831 Farm Labourer Sibertswold, Kent, England Transcription
Michael Fox Son - Male 13 1838 - Sibertswold, Kent, England Transcription
Charles Fox Son - Male 7 1844 - Sibertswold, Kent, England Transcription
Eliza Fox Daughter - Female 5 1846 - Sibertswold, Kent, England Transcription
Mary Fox Daughter - Female 1 1850 - Sibertswold, Kent, England Transcription
Jane Fox Daughter Unmarried Female 18 1833 - Sibertswold, Kent, England

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Silberwood, Sibertswold, Dover, Kent, England

Michael Fox Head Married Male 56 1805 Parish Clerk Sibertswold, Kent, England Transcription
Jane Fox Wife Married Female 53 1808 - Northbourne Transcription
Charles Fox Son - Male 16 1845 - Sibertswold, Kent, England Transcription
John Fox Son - Male 8 1853 Scholar Sibertswold, Kent, England


1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Moons Hill, Sibertswold, Dover, Kent, England

Michael Fox Head - Male 64 1807 - Kent, England Transcription
Jane Fox Wife - Female 61 1810 - Kent, England

It seems you've got this sorted, so this is just in case you run into a similar situation later on.

As you probably know, you can purchase BMD certs from the local office that now holds the rego's as well as the GRO who hold copies of these rego's, and some local RDs have their indexes online, see:
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/local_bmd
In this case, Kent RD holds all the rego's from the historic county of Kent except the Medway towns and the London part of Kent.

So the 2 marrs in question involve:



Marriages Dec 1867 (>99%)
BASS Elizabeth Canterbury 2a 1161
DAY William Canterbury 2a 1161
FOX William Canterbury 2a 1161
MARSH Emma Canterbury 2a 1161

and we wish to know who wed Emma, so we do a look up at:
http://webapps.kent.gov.uk/KCC.ROIS.Web.Sites.Public/Pages/Default.aspx

and get:
Marriage Certificate Details
Name MARSH, Emma
Year Of Marriage 1867
Entry Number 217
Register 12/1
Location Kent County Council

We next look up the potential grooms:

Name DAY, William
Year Of Marriage 1867
Entry Number 218
Register 12/1
Location Kent County Council

Name FOX, William
Year Of Marriage 1867
Entry Number 217
Register 12/1
Location Kent County Council


Now it's clear Wm Fox has the same entry number as Emma, so must appear on the same m.cert as Emma whilst Wm Day appears on another m.cert.

The other stuff, viz
Register 12/1
says this entry appears in the 1st rego for the church coded as 12.
Not very helpful as there's no key provided.

We can also look up births, although the transcriptions for Dover only seem tocover the early years, e.g.,

Birth Certificate Details
Name FOX, Michael
Year Of Birth 1837
Entry Number 51
Register HOUGHAM 1
Location Kent County Council

The GRO have this (along with some sibs) as:

FOX, MICHAEL MARTIN Order
GRO Reference: 1837 D Quarter in DOVER UNION Volume 05 Page 86

FOX, CHARLES MARTIN Order
GRO Reference: 1844 J Quarter in DOVER UNION Volume 05 Page 117

FOX, ELIZA MARTIN Order
GRO Reference: 1847 M Quarter in DOVER UNION Volume 05 Page 115

FOX, MARY ANN MARTIN Order
GRO Reference: 1850 M Quarter in DOVER UNION Volume 05 Page 123

FOX, JOHN MARTIN Order
GRO Reference: 1852 S Quarter in DOVER Volume 02A Page 589

Here's 1851 again:



https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGLH-82X
Event Date 1851
Event Place Sibertswold, Kent, England
Registration District Dover
Residence Note Butter Street
Registration Number HO107 Piece/Folio 1632 / 879 Page Number 25

Michael Fox Head M 45 Sibertswold, Kent
Jane Fox Wife F 43 Sibertswold, Kent
George Fox Son M 20 Sibertswold, Kent
Michael Fox Son M 13 Sibertswold, Kent
Charles Fox Son M 7 Sibertswold, Kent
Eliza Fox Daughter F 5 Sibertswold, Kent
Mary Fox Daughter F 1 Sibertswold, Kent
Jane Fox Daughter F 18 Sibertswold, Kent

If we go to TNA:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

we can look up ho107/1632 and see:
Reference: HO 107/1632
Description:
Registration District: 72. DOVER.

Registration Sub-District: 1 St James ff.1-339.
Parish: Ringwould. Hamlet: Kingsdown.
Parish: Oxney.
Parish: East Langdon. Hamlet: Marten.
Parish: West Langdon.
Parish: St Margaret-at-Cliffe. Hamlet: St Margaret's Bay.
Parish: West Cliffe.
Parish: Whitfield. Hamlet: Pineham; Hamlet: Ashley Court; Hamlet: Archers Court; Hamlet: Lenniker.
Parish: Guston.
Parish: Charlton-near-Dover (4).
Parish: Dover.
Parish: Dover Castle (1).
Parish: East Cliffe.
Parish: St James the Apostle.

Registration Sub-District: 2 St Mary ff.340-663.
Parish: St Mary the Virgin (6)(8).

Registration Sub-District: 3 Hougham ff.664-End.
Parish: Hougham or Huffam (1).
Parish: Buckland (3).
Parish: Poulton.
Parish: River.
Parish: Ewell.
Parish: Coldred.
Parish: Lydden.
Parish: Sibertswold.
Parish: Denton.
Parish: Wootton.
Parish: Alkham. Hamlet: Reindein House.
Parish: Capel-le-Ferne.
Parish: Poulton.

The key to the numbers is

(1) Barracks and military quarters;
(2) HM ships at home;
(3) Workhouses (including pauper schools);
(4) Hospitals (sick, convalescent, incurable);
(5) Lunatic asylums (public and private);
(6) Prisons;
(7) Certified reformatories and industrial schools;
(8) Merchant vessels;
(9) Schools.


Now folio 879 falls into the range ff.664-End. which is the segment of this piece devoted to:

Registration Sub-District: 3 Hougham which includes:
Parish: Sibertswold.

There is an 1850s map showing English parishes at:
https://www.familysearch.org/mapp/
I can click on Kent, list all the parishes,then click on Sibertswold., then layer un the Dover RD boundary.


it's clear to me that the St James subdistrict covered the eastern parishes, and Hougham covered the western parishes and St Mary covers Dover itself.

When one rego's a B or D, one does so at the local subdistrict office rather than the local RD main office. This can be a great convenience; e.g., suppose I live in Farnborough in NE Hants -I have a 5 m round-trip to my local subdistrict office at Aldershot, rather than a 100 m round-trip to the main office at Winchester..

Historically this meant that every subdistrict would have its own B and D registers that were signed by the informant. At the end of each quarter, the subdistrict registrars had a copy made of the quarter's Bs and their Ds. . It was the responsibility of the district suuperintendent to make sure the copies were accurate, to collect the copies from each of his subdistricts, and send these copies to the GRO, and also retain any completed registers. Each rego had 500 entries at 5 per page. The GRO copies had 10 per page until 1911-ish, then they went to 5 per page like the originals.

So Michael's b.rego is identified by the subdistrict (or its code), the reister number (numbered sequentially within the subdistrict) and eother the entry number or its page number.. Marrs nearly always have an entry number in their index, so one knows who wed whom.