Genealogy Chat

I agree working out who is who does present a problem and especially when you factor in the spelling Strananhan !!
The Martins are even more difficult although they were in the area of Ballylone as far back as the early 1700s...
"James Martin of Ballylone died 1766 aged 118 yrs.."

Hugh STRANAHAN Magheradrool of Ballylone Big; leased house & 9 acres from Jane Savage in 1863

Hugh died 17/04/1906, leaving £193 to Samuel Stranaghan steward of the land.

And Grace...or one of the graces as there is 3,

dies in 1916 probate granted to HANS MARTIN and then farm sold on to william stranaghan, leaving 160.00 in her will.

Words like stewardship may relate to what you suggested earlier?
but it also states this farm somehow becomes their property as it is sold to William Stranaghan.

I wonder if there are 2 very strong Stranaghan families in the same town who are running farms and are all related, as they seem to be here there and everywhere, and as they use the same names over and over again it becomes quite a jumble.

Im not sure why Grace lodged it in Dublin, as so far Ive not seen any really strong connections to the place...I will delve deeper Monday as I have a day off to go through it all and place people in the right family at the right time and in the right groups.

Andrew I have checked Griffiths Valuation and the only 2 Stranaghans listed (1863)
were in Drumarkin…
Andrew Stranaghan
Hugh Stranaghan
Both were tenants and leased land from Trustees of Hon.Rbt Meade..you can see details on the following site.

www.askaboutireand.ie

Land Deeds 1876 showed Andrew Stranaghan Castlewellan owner 347 acres...No Hugh as Land Owner.

I wonder why Grace lodged her Will in Dublin...…?

@erin, okay so that would explain it a bit more, and sounds the most likely doesn't it, i had the will, i also had the burial plots for quite a few of them, they were on what i can only describe as pigskin. They were very hard and when they were near heat (radiator) they would "buckle" and warp till cooled. They were handsomely written in old script. Unfortunately my uncle borrowed them and burnt them all in an open fire after my grandparents died.

I have a few copies but they are nothing compared to the originals.

My mother, now 71, remembers my grandfather taking her to Ballynahinch when she was a little girl, too visit another little girl who was in the hospital there, so i am thinking that there could well be connections and family still alive who were talking even in the early 50s.

Unfortunately, my family are not talkers, they like many Irish people are quite closed off and reserved in personal matters, so other family members were just never spoken about.

Which is why this journey, and with help from all of you to me means so much and i do thank you wholeheartedly for your help and direction.

I will lookinto a visit to PRONI office and see if there is lease copies?

Andrew...In answer to your query regarding the lease of the land/farm on death it would depend on the terms of the actual lease .. who was named and the length of the lease... but in short no you cannot lease to someone else ..(the property/farm does not belong to you) You would need to get a copy of the actual lease between Hugh Stranaghan and whoever he leased the land from.
At the time in question the farms/land etc were always left to the Eldest Male in the family and they had to be recognised as "Legal" son...to the best of my knowledge the eldest still continues to inherit although there are some changes to the "Legal" son and women who had no legal rights can I believe inherit.....It can become quite complex regards inheritance law.
It may well be that Hans Martin was the next in line....
You would need to get a copy of Graces' will to find out anything more...
Grace (daughter) was still living on the farm when she died 1921....
The lease of the Land could have been in perpetuity or for a given number eg 100 years.

Andrew- do you actually have Grace's Will?

also found this thread....

https://www.ancestry.com/boards/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=6367&p=localities.britisles.ireland.dow.general

So, if they didn't own the farm, and it was leased, was it possible to Will the lease or the control of the farm to someone after your death?


"Was it not Lizzie Stranaghan who had the child John b1888 (March) Lizzie died it appears from convulsions following his birth.....John (1901/1911 Census) seems to have been brought up by his grandparents Hugh and Grace."

yes she died, but no father or other person was involved as far as I could see, John W was also left effects in a will or rather provision to stay in the farm with a roof over his head in exchange for work...I think it stated that he must "be of significant use".

I know my GGGGGgrandparents we involved with the Battle of Ballynahinch and were written up in a book which we still have a copy of.

So it would seem that as late as the 1950s I had family still there?

But as suggested the Hans Martin, was the Nephew of GRACE, but still doesn't explain why he got a share when there was so many others that would be in line before him, Unless he was very close?

AustinQ..
.Agree it would be Grace Martin Stranaghan's nephew but as far as I can see or work out none of the previous Martins/Stranaghan's mentioned owned the land but leased it ….

Ahhh- so it looks possible that William Martin was Grace's brother. Their father was Hugh Martin

Marriage:

Name Hugh Stranaghan
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 13 Dec 1845
Event Place Kilmore, Downpatrick, Ireland
Event Place Kilmore, Downpatrick
Gender Male
Father's Name William Stranaghan
Spouse's Name Grace Martin
Spouse's Gender Female
Spouse's Age 19
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated) 1826
Spouse's Father's Name Hugh Martin
---------------------------------------

Name William Martin
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 1 Feb 1867
Event Place Ballynahinch, Downpatrick, County Down, Ireland
Event Place Ballynahinch, Downpatrick, Ireland
Gender Male
Father's Name Hugh Martin
Spouse's Name Margaret Jane Martin
Spouse's Gender Female
Spouse's Father's Name Hans Martin

So the name Hans was passed down from Margaret's father. If correct, the Hans mentioned in the probate of Grace Stranaghan was her nephew (her brother's child)

This is Hans and family 1901:

Residents of a house 25 in Raleagh (Ballynahinch, Down)
Martin Meggie 24 Female Daughter Presbyterian Co Down - Not Married
Newell Hugh William 10 Male Grand Son Presbyterian Co Down At School Not Married
Martin William 74 Male Head of Family Presbyterian Co Down Farmer Married
Martin William 28 Male Son Presbyterian Co Down Farmer Not Married -
Martin Hans 26 Male Son Presbyterian Co Down Farmer Not Married -
Martin Margaret Jane 64 Female Wife Presbyterian Co Down Married

Ahh, OK- so that's the Hans Martin link- so not the Hans that died in 1873.

Haven't looked into it but this (dated 1927) shows Hans and Stranahans having holdings on the same farm.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/Belfast/issue/294/page/133/data.pdf
----------------------------

So possibly this Hans?

PRONI Will Calendars
Hans Martin
Death: 20 September 1951
Grant: 4 March 1952
Registry: Belfast

Martin Hans of Rock House Ballylone Ballynahinch county Down farmer died 20 September 1951 Probate Belfast 4 March to Sarah Margaret Martin married woman and Hugh William Newell farmer. Effects £7040 19s. 9d.

1911:
Residents of a house 13 in Ballylone Big (Ballynahinch, Down)
Martin Hans 36 Male Head of Family Presbyterian Down Farmer Married
Martin Sarah 39 Female Wife Presbyterian Down Married - 5 3 1
Martin William 4 Male Son Presbyterian Down -
Skillin Elizabeth Jane 29 Female Servant Presbyterian Down Cook Domestic Servant
Lappin Maggie 2 Female ? Presbyterian Belfast
Magoran Henry 26 Male Servant Roman Catholic Down Farm Servant
Mcnamara James 29 Male Servant Methodist Down Farm Servant

Marriage:
Party 1 Name HANS MARTIN father- William Martin, farmer
Party 2 Name SARAH HEALEY father- James Healy, farmer
Date of Event 25 May 1906
Group Registration ID 2054211
SR District/Reg Area Belfast

Birth:
Name HANS MARTIN
Father: William Martin- farmer
Mother: Margaret Jane Martin- formerly Martin
Abode: Raleagh
Date of Birth 2nd Oct 1874
Group Registration ID 8549861
SR District/Reg Area Downpatrick
Sex N/R
----------------------------------

So Grace could have been related to William Martin OR Margaret Jane as her maiden name was also Martin

AustinQ.
No more confused than me but after some searching found Grace (snr.) died 1916 and will was lodged Dublin.effects £160
Probate granted to Hans Martin Farmer and Wm Stranaghan Buyer.

Have just found birth of Isaac but cant locate him 1911

Erin- I think Grace had a child, Isaac Stranaghan, in 1876

I'm a bit confused here- when/ where does Hans crop up and claim everything from the Stranaghans? Am I missing something? I don't see his name appearing in the Will calendars in relation to any Stranaghan deaths.

Was it not Lizzie Stranaghan who had the child John b1888 (March) Lizzie died it appears from convulsions following his birth.....John (1901/1911 Census) seems to have been brought up by his grandparents Hugh and Grace.

@austin...grace martin marries hugh strannaghan, who are my ggggggrandparents.
But they had children, and 1 was grace, grace in turn had a child, but no father listed, samuel and andrew were also made provision for, but i just cant fit this Hans Martin into the family as a direct or worthy taker of all my land! :-D

Hi all, thank for the info, and for the will notes for hans martin, im not sure why Hans Martin would get the farm...if he was Graces brother, but Grace and Hugh had children...how does he have tge right to keep taking! Lol

Basically i want my da*n farm back!!

Hugh Stranaghan didn't die until 1906 and wife Grace was still alive 1911 everything was left by Hugh eg Farm etc to Grace.Dont see any mention of Hans Martin but seeing he died 1873 ….!! There were other Hans Martin's last noted to have died in the '50s (Ballynahinch)

Where does Hans crop up?- in relation to which Stranaghan deaths?