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Tawny
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25 Aug 2020 21:24 |
One of my ancestors changes his birth place from Mary Tavy, Devonshire on the 1891 census to Millom, Cumberland on the 1901 census. His wife was born in Whitehaven, Cumberland and states this on all the census records she appears on and his daughter who first appears on the 1901 census also says place of birth is Millom, Cumberland. Would there be a benefit to him changing his birth county to the one he was living in at the time of the census?
He was living as a lodger in 1901 so I know it is also possible that the person filling out the census may not have had the right information.
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ArgyllGran
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25 Aug 2020 22:05 |
For our reference - is this the couple??
John Gorman in the 1891 England Census Name: John Gorman Gender: Male Age: 24 Relationship: Head Birth Year: 1867 Spouse: Agnes Gorman Birth Place: Mary Tavy, Devon, England Civil Parish: Millom Ecclesiastical parish: St Georges Residence Place: Millom, Millom, Cumberland, England Registration district: Bootle Sub registration district: Bootle ED, Institution or Vessel: 6 Neighbors: Piece: 4321 Folio: 125 Household Members: Name Age John Gorman 24 Agnes Gorman 23 - Whitehaven
They're at the same address as another family of Gormans (part of the same family, I assume) , some of whom are born in Mary Tavy and others in Millom. Phillip and Ellen, with sons Jabez and Frederick, all born in Mary Tavy, and other children Phillip, Paul, Myra and Mary all born in Millom.
John Gorman in the 1901 England Census Name: John Gorman Age: 33 Estimated birth year: abt 1868 Relation to Head: Boarder Gender: Male Birth Place: Millom, Cumberland, England Civil Parish: Wallsend Ecclesiastical parish: Wallsend St Luke Town: Wallsend County/Island: Northumberland Country: England Registration district: Tynemouth Sub-registration district: Wallsend ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Neighbors: Piece: 4796 Folio: 43 Page Number: 32 Household schedule number: 158 Household Members: Name Age Thomas Dinsdale 32 Agnes Dinsdale 28 Richard Dinsdale 8 Jane Dinsdale 7 Mary Dinsdale 5 Margaret Dinsdale 3 Alice Dinsdale 1 John Gorman 33 Agnes Gorman 33 Eleanor Gorman 9
Perhaps the enumerator just got mixed up. Which is the correct place of birth? If Mary Tavy is the correct one, maybe, as you suggest, the person giving the information knew he'd previously lived in Millom, and assumed he'd been born there.
I can't see that there would be any advantage to changing his POB. He doesn't seem to have been unemployed and looking for any Poor Law help or similar.
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Tawny
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25 Aug 2020 22:13 |
Thank you. I did wonder if the person just gave the wrong information. That is the right family above in 1891 and 1901. I suspect Philip and Ellen are Johns’ parents but will need the very to confirm. A John Gorman of the right age and place of birth does appear on two previous census with them though.
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ArgyllGran
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25 Aug 2020 22:28 |
GORMAN, ELEANOR mms CONNELLY GRO Reference: 1892 S Quarter in BOOTLE Volume 10B Page 692
Marriages Mar 1891 (>99%) Connelly Agnes Bootle 10b 969 Gorman John Bootle 10b 969
Unfortunately there's no marriage banns record online to show his father's name. But it might be worth getting the marriage cert.
Though I agree that Phillip is very likely to be his father.
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Tawny
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25 Aug 2020 22:36 |
Thank you for the marriage and their daughter’s birth. Your right the marriage cert might be better as it would also confirm Agnes’ father who if I’m right is Andrew Connelly from Dublin. Agnes Gorman was one of the witnesses who signed James Connelly’s marriage certificate in 1898. James and Agnes would be brother and sister.
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ErikaH
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26 Aug 2020 13:48 |
CONNELLY, AGNES WASDALE GREENLAW GRO Reference: 1868 M Quarter in WHITEHAVEN Volume 10B Page 537
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Plumlands Lane, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England Andrew Connelly Head - Male 26 1845 - Ireland Ellen Connelly Wife - Female 26 1845 - Cumberland, England Agnes Connelly Daughter - Female 3 1868 - Cumberland, England James Connelly Son - Male 0 1871 - Cumberland, England Jane Flood Visitor - Female 28 1843 - Cumberland, England
Marriages Jun 1867 (>99%) CONNELLY Andrew Whitehaven 10b 787 GREENLAW Ellenor Wasdale Whitehaven 10b 787
CONNELLY, JAMES GREENLAW GRO Reference: 1871 J Quarter in WHITEHAVEN Volume 10B Page 579
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ErikaH
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26 Aug 2020 13:54 |
GREENLAW, ELEANOR WASDALE WASDALE GRO Reference: 1845 M Quarter in WHITEHAVEN Volume 25 Page 173
GREENLAW, MARGARET QUIGGIN WASDALE GRO Reference: 1843 D Quarter in WHITEHAVEN Volume 25 Page 155
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census 17, Bardy Lane, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England William Quiggin Greenlow Head Married Male 35 1816 Tide Waiter (Customs) Whitehaven, Cumberland, England Agnes Greenlow Wife Married Female 40 1811 - Cumberland, England Margaret Greenlow Daughter - Female 7 1844 - Whitehaven, Cumberland, England William Greenlow Son - Male 9 1842 Scholar Whitehaven, Cumberland, England Eleanor Wasder Greenlow Daughter - Female 6 1845 Scholar Whitehaven, Cumberland, England Rebecca Lamb Servant Unmarried Female 19 1832 House Servant Cumberland, England
Strange...................
GREENLAW, WILLIAM QUIGGIN CANNON GRO Reference: 1841 D Quarter in WHITEHAVEN Volume 25 Page 159
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ErikaH
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26 Aug 2020 13:58 |
Name: Agnes Wasdale Gender: Female Birth Date: 13 Feb 1805 Baptism Date: 15 Feb 1805 Baptism Place: Saint John Beckermet,Cumberland,England Father: John Wasdale Mother: Eleanor
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ErikaH
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26 Aug 2020 14:05 |
Baptised after marriage
Name: Ellen Connelly [Ellen Greenlow] Baptism Age: 22 Event Type: Baptism Birth Date: 3 Jul 1845 Baptism Date: 10 Jul 1867 Baptism Place: St Andrew's, Dublin city, Dublin, Ireland Residence Place: 11 Moss St Parish Variants: St. Andrew's, Westland Row, Westland Row Diocese: Dublin Father: William Greenlow Mother: Agnes Westdale
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ErikaH
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26 Aug 2020 14:09 |
1861
Name: Andrew Connelly Age: 16 Estimated birth year: 1845 Relation: Apprentice Gender: Male Where born: Dublin, Ireland Civil Parish: Vessels Town: Whitehaven Harbour County/Island: Cumberland Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Anglesey Sub-registration district: Holyhead ED, institution, or vessel: Nerrid
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ErikaH
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26 Aug 2020 14:18 |
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Quay Street, St Bees, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England
William Greenlaw Male 25 1816 Cumberland, England Agnes Greenlaw Female 25 1816 Cumberland, England Alexander Greenlaw Male 3 1838 Cumberland, England Jane Greenlaw Female 1 1840 Cumberland, England Dorothy Harrison Female 25 1816 Cumberland, England
First name(s) Alexander Henry Last name Greenlaw Gender Male Baptism year 1837 Baptism date 31 Dec 1837 Place Whitehaven County Cumberland Country England Father's first name(s) William Father's last name Greenlaw Mother's first name(s) Agness
I wonder.......................................
First name(s) AGNES Last name WASDALE Birth year 1808 Marriage year 1829 Marriage date 28 Dec 1829 Parish St Philip, Liverpool Spouse's first name John Oswald Spouse's last name Cannon Bride's age 21 Bride's residence Liverpool Bride's marital status Spinster Groom's age 21 Groom's residence Liverpool Groom's occupation Mariner Groom's marital status Batchelor Place ST PHILIP, LIVERPOOL
Name: Sarah Oswald Cannon Gender: Female Baptism Date: 24 May 1835 Baptism Place: Saint Bees,Cumberland,England Father: John Oswald Cannon Mother: Agnes
Deaths Sep 1837 (>99%) CANNON Sarah Oswald Whitehaven 25 97
Name: Thomas Coulthard Cannon***** Gender: Male Baptism Date: 14 Oct 1832 Baptism Place: Saint Bees,Cumberland,England Father: John Oswald Cannon Mother: Agnes
Name: John Oswald Cannon Gender: Male Baptism Date: 27 Apr 1856 Baptism Place: Saint Bees,Cumberland,England Father: Thomas Coulthard Cannon**** Mother: Ann
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census St Bee Village, St Bee, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England John Wasdale Male 65 1776 Cumberland, England Eleanor Wasdale Female 65 1776 Cumberland, England Joseph Bewley Male 30 1811 Cumberland, England Eleanor Bewley Female 30 1811 Cumberland, England Thomas Cannon Male 8 1833 Cumberland, England
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ErikaH
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26 Aug 2020 14:49 |
Name: Margaret Quiggin Greenlaw Gender: Female Marriage Date: 30 Jun 1875 Marriage Place: Millom, Cumberland, England Father: William Greenlaw Spouse: John Polglase
Name: Margaret Quiggin Polglase Death Date: 22 Oct 1919 Death Place: Cumberland, England Probate Date: 25 Oct 1951 Probate Registry: Carlisle
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Tawny
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26 Aug 2020 16:53 |
Thank you for all the records Erika. I’ll have loads to look at now.
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mgnv
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4 Sep 2020 18:29 |
http://www.cumbriabmd.org.uk/ Cumbria Marriage indexes for the years: 1875 Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Year Church / Register Office Registers At Reference GREENLAW Margaret Q POLGLAZE John 1875 Millom, Holy Trinity Cumbria Certificate Services C4/1/443
These two births that Erika posted: GREENLAW, MARGARET QUIGGIN WASDALE GRO Reference: 1843 D Quarter in WHITEHAVEN Volume 25 Page 155 GREENLAW, ELEANOR WASDALE WASDALE GRO Reference: 1845 M Quarter in WHITEHAVEN Volume 25 Page 173
are almost surely related to these two births: GREENLAW, MARGARET QUIGGIN TUCKER GRO Reference: 1849 J Quarter in ULVERSTONE UNION Volume 25 Page 215 GREENLAW, HENRY TUCKER TUCKER GRO Reference: 1851 M Quarter in ULVERSTONE UNION Volume 25 Page 215
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Tawny
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5 Sep 2020 16:17 |
Thank you for giving me Margaret’s marriage. Those births are definitely interesting as Quiggin is an unusual name.
From the digging I’ve done Quiggin appears to be the maiden name of Margaret and Eleanor’s grandmother on their fathers side. It is possible Margaret and Henry are cousins of Margaret and Eleanor.
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mgnv
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6 Sep 2020 11:20 |
Marriages Mar 1846 (>99%) GREENLAW John Stepney 2 397 Tucker Caroline Augusta Stepney 2 397 etc
1851 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGBK-7VK Event Place: Kirkby Ireleth, Lancashire, England Registration District: Ulverstone [Registration Sub-District: 5 West Broughton ff.246-371. ] Page Number: 24 Registration Number: HO107 Piece/Folio: 2275 / 261 Household Role Sex Age Birthplace John Greenlaw Head Male 33 Whitehaven, Cumberland M Principal Coast Officer Caroline A Greenlaw Wife Female 33 Limehouse, Middlesex M Margaret Q Greenlaw Daughter Female 1 Kirkby Ireleth, Lancashire Henry T Greenlaw Son Male 0 Kirkby Ireleth, Lancashire
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Tawny
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6 Sep 2020 15:43 |
Thank you for finding John and Caroline’s marriage and the family on the 1851 census.
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