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BrianW
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20 Feb 2021 21:28 |
Thank you everone for your input. With that and some more research:
Looking back at the censuses and death records it now sems pretty certain that Ann Catherine Barnard was born in 1799 and that the 1796 date in the Ancestry tree is incorrect.
Her first husband Isaac Jesson died in 1830 and she remarried to William Parfrey in 1833. He died in 1840 after having one daughter, Rachael, born 24 Dec 1834 who was 16 on the 1851 census.
I now doubt that the 1759 William Barnard is the correct one.
I'll carry on double-checking.
I agree Ancestry trees are unverified and unreliable. Recently came across an apparent grandfather aged 28, a father aged 9 and a chap fathering children 10 years after dying. Maybe they had sperm banks and in vitro fertilisation in the 1800s?
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ArgyllGran
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20 Feb 2021 15:30 |
It's all speculation re her birth.
Might as well throw in another one:
Ann Barnard in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 Name: Ann Barnard Gender: Female Baptism Date: 10 Jan 1802 Baptism Place: Bexley,Kent,England Father: Willm. Barnard Mother: Elizth. FHL Film Number: 0992672, 0992454
That child had a brother William, baptised 1804.
EDIT:
No - probably not. This looks like the father William's death:
William Barnard in the England, Select Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991 Name: William Barnard Gender: Male Age: 47 Birth Date: 1773 Burial Date: 26 Mar 1820 Burial Place: Bexley, Kent, England FHL Film Number: 1469314 Reference ID: 224
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Maddie
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20 Feb 2021 15:22 |
only 2 bapts coming up but do not specify where
Ann Last name Barnard Birth year 1796 Birth date 04 Aug 1796 Place - Denomination Dissenters Father's first name(s) John Mother's first name(s) Jane County London Country England The National Archives reference TNA/RG/4/4661 Description LONDON: Dr Williams' Library Registry; Registers of certificates: 1-4429
Ann Last name Barnard Gender Female Birth year 1797 Birth place - Baptism year 1797 Baptism date 04 Mar 1797 Place - County London Country England Father's first name(s) Robert Father's last name Barnard Mother's first name(s) Ann
and she changed her forename after her marriage
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ErikaH
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20 Feb 2021 14:54 |
Assuming anything on Ancestry trees to be accurate is very unwise
1851 census suggests a later birth, based on her stated age. This seems to be verified by her death info
Name: Catherine Parfrey Age: 52 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1799 Relation: Head Gender: Female Where born: Deptford, Kent, England
Have you used the same 'source' to identify her father? Or have you researched that yourself, and found proof? Is any of the 'info' in your opening post - apart from her marriage - actually proven by you?
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BrianW
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20 Feb 2021 14:37 |
The 1796 date is from the tree on Ancestry. It's verifying it which is proving difficult. Another source suggests 1799.
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Maddie
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20 Feb 2021 14:30 |
burial Isaac Last name Jesson Birth year 1784 Age at death AGED 46 YEARS Death year 1830 Burial year 1830 Burial date 1830 Apr 18 Residence FROM GROVE LANE Place Deptford, St Nicholas County Kent Country England Source St.Nicholas 1813-1847 Burials Record set Kent Burials
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ErikaH
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20 Feb 2021 13:42 |
Name: Isaac Jesson Age: 46 Record Type: Burial Birth Date: abt 1784 Death Date: abt 1830 Burial Date: 18 Apr 1830
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ErikaH
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20 Feb 2021 13:40 |
Name: Rachel Parfrey Gender: Female Birth Date: 24 Dec 1834 Baptism Date: 14 Jan 1835 Baptism Place: St. Paul, Deptford, Kent, England Father: William Parfrey Mother: Eleanor Catharine Parfrey
Name: Rachel Parfrey Gender: Female Record Type: Marriage Marriage Date: 7 Mar 1852 Marriage Place: St James, Bermondsey, Southwark, England Father: William Parfrey Spouse: Samuel Ratherford
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Maddie
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20 Feb 2021 13:36 |
just wondering if this could be witness samuel no bapt for him either
1`841 Name: Samuel Barnard Age: 35 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806 Gender: Male Where born: Kent, England Civil Parish: St Nicholas Hundred: Blackheath County/Island: Kent Country: England Street Address: Occupation: View image Registration District: Greenwich Sub-registration District: St Nicholas Deptford Neighbors: Piece: 488 Book: 1 Folio: 26 Page Number: 7 Household Members: Name Age Samuel Barnard 35 Thomas Barnard 45
1861 Creek Road, St Nicholas, Greenwich, London & Kent, England Samuel Barnard Head Unmarried Male 58 1803 Lighterman Deptford, Kent, England Thomas Barnard Lodger Unmarried Male 73 1788 Lighterman Deptford, Kent, England Ann Barnard Lodger Widow Female 62 1799 - Deptford, Kent, England Richard Barnard Nephew - Male 9 1852 Scholar Deptford, Kent, England
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Maddie
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20 Feb 2021 12:42 |
1841
Grove Lane, St Nicholas Deptford, Greenwich, London & Kent, England
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census. First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place Catharine Parfrey Female 40 1801 Kent, England Richard Jesson Male 20 1821 Kent, England Mary Jesson Female 11 1830 Kent, England Joseph Jesson Male 8 1833 Kent, England Rachael Parfrey Female 5 1836 Kent, England Mary Hewitt Female 20 1821 - John Fenwick Male 20 1821 - Camilla Trower Female 25 1816 Kent, England Jane Trower Female 2 1839 Kent, England John Williams Male 35 1806 Wales Mary Cox Female 35 1806 Wales John Cox Male 13 1828 Wales Charles Cox Male 0 1841 Kent, England
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ArgyllGran
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20 Feb 2021 12:38 |
Ann is in 35 trees on Ancestry, many (possibly all, but of course I haven't looked at them all) claiming that date and place of birth - without proof.
Just the usual all too common wrong assumptions, and too much blindly copying from other people's trees without checking, where a little comon sense would show many of the mistakes.
For instance, "proof" of her age is claimed to be the 1841 census record of an Ann Barnard who is the wife of a James Barnard!
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Maddie
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20 Feb 2021 12:32 |
son 1851 Name: Isaac Jefson [Isaac Jesson] Age: 29 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822 Relation: Son Spouse's Name: Hannah Jefson Mother's Name: Catherine Parfrey Gender: Male Where born: Deptford, Kent, England Civil Parish: Deptford St Nicholas Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps: View related Ecclesiastical Parish Town: Deptford County/Island: Kent Country: England Street Address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration District: Greenwich Sub-registration District: St Nicholas Deptford ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Neighbors: Household Schedule Number: 248 Piece: 1585 Folio: 188 Page Number: 50 Household Members: Name Age Catherine Parfrey 52 -------- mother Isaac Jefson 29 Hannah Jefson 32 Racheal Tarpey 16 Joan Jefson 6 Mo Samuel Redford 18 Thomas Ellen 21 Richard J Cantis 45
Name: Isaac John Jesson Gender: Male Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 2 Sep 1821 Baptism Place: England, Deptford St Paul, Lewisham Father: Isaac Jesson Mother: Catharine Jesson Register Type: Parish Registers
??? Eleanor Catherine Last name Jesson Name note - Marriage year 1833 Marriage date 30 Dec 1833 Marriage place Lee Spouse's first name(s) William Spouse's last name Parfrey Spouse's age - Residence Lee, Kent, England County Kent Country England
Name: Eleanor Catherine Jesson Gender: Female Marital Status: Widowed ----- Marriage Date: 30 Dec 1833 Marriage Place: Lee, Kent, England Spouse: William Parfrey FHL Film Number: 1469430
Name: Catherine Helena Parfrey Estimated Birth Year: abt 1799 Registration Year: 1872 Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep Age at Death: 73 Registration District: Greenwich Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District Inferred County: London Volume: 1d Page: 479
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Maddie
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20 Feb 2021 11:19 |
no baptism on ancestry or fmp for ann catherine 1796 where did you get the dob from
witnesses to the marriage were samuel barnard and e barnard
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ErikaH
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20 Feb 2021 10:42 |
Ancestry trees are notoriously unreliable
Have you researched the people yourself? Are you 100% certain that Ann’s father is the man whose marriage you refer to?
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BrianW
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20 Feb 2021 10:02 |
Ann Catherine Barnard was born 10 Nov 1796 in Deptford and married Isaac John Jesson on 15 Jan 1821 in St. Anne, Soho. Her father was William Barnard 1759 - 1817. According to a tree on Ancestry he married Rachael Richards 1762 - 1822 in 1805 as a widower (assuming that is the correct William Barnard), Banns read at St Saviour, Southwark, Feb 1805.
Question is: if that is the correct marriage, who was his first wife, who presumably was Ann's mother and not Rachael Richards, as she was born 10 years before that marriage?
Any input will be gratefully received.
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