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Gwyn in Kent
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12 Apr 2021 17:36 |
Maralyn
I have searched for years for a baby born in 1911. He was only a few months old, so should have been at home, but I have looked in hospitals too. The family state that one child has been born of the marriage and is living, ...but where? I have 'walked' up and down the street looking at nearby properties in case he was included with a neighbour by mistake. He is just not there.
Children did go into workhouses during times of hardship and some went in more than once, going back home in between, only to return to the workhouse, when things got tough again.
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Maralyn
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12 Apr 2021 17:23 |
Another thought. If the parents had fallen on hard times, could the children have been in put into a workhouse or similar for a short period?
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Maralyn
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12 Apr 2021 17:13 |
Thank you all once again for the info put forward. Some of it I was aware of, some not so will add to my tree.
I wondered why most of the children would be missing from the 1911 Census but as suggested, perhaps it was just William leaving them out in error. Might check though that they weren't with maternal grandparents and listed as Herbert's.
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ArgyllGran
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12 Apr 2021 08:28 |
Posting for fun, as Maralyn may well have all this family history already .
Elsie May:
Marriages Sep 1934 (>99%) Finch John S Pettley Wandsworth 1d 1769 Pettley Elsie M Finch Wandsworth 1d 1769
Isabel M Finch in the 1939 England and Wales Register Name: Isabel M Finch [Elsie M Finch ] Gender: Female Marital Status: Married Birth Date: 5 Aug 1914 Residence Year: 1939 Address: 47 Residence Place: Wandsworth, London, England Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties Line Number: 20 Schedule Number: 110 Sub Schedule Number: 2 Enumeration District: AXQB Borough: Wandsworth Registration district: 24-4 Inferred Spouse: John S Finch Household Members Age John S Finch 23 Isabel M Finch 25
Elsie May Finch in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007 Name: Elsie May Finch Death Age: 85 Birth Date: 5 Aug 1914 Registration Date: Dec 1999 Registration District: Southwark Inferred County: Greater London Register Number: C13A District and Subdistrict: 2511C Entry Number: 145
But - going back to Maralyn's original query, the answer seems likely to be as already suggested, simply that the father William didn't fill in the form correctly.
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greyghost
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11 Apr 2021 20:08 |
Shirley, we must have crossed - have deleted the reply
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greyghost
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11 Apr 2021 20:07 |
Post 1911 census births
PETTLEY, ALFRED HERBERT GRO Reference: 1912 M Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 681
PETTLEY, ELSIE MAY HERBERT GRO Reference: 1914 S Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 1274
PETTLEY, VIOLET HERBERT GRO Reference: 1920 J Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 1295
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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11 Apr 2021 20:05 |
Greyghost
I deleted my question who are the nine children when my iPad updated with your post naming the children :-D
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greyghost
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11 Apr 2021 20:01 |
?? Henry George cremated as George Henry 11.2.1988 West Norwood Crematorium aged 89
??Arthur Alfred buried 11.1.1949 at Streatham Cemetery aged 47
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ArgyllGran
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11 Apr 2021 19:57 |
William James Pettley in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965 Name: William James Pettley Electoral Date: 1939 Street Address: 7 Clark's Cottages [ 8 Clarks Cottages on image ] Ward or Division/Constituency: Wandsworth Central County or Borough: Wandsworth, England
He's with a Louisa Pettley.
Willm S Pattler in the 1939 England and Wales Register Name: Willm S Pattler Gender: Male Marital Status: Married Birth Date: 1 Apr 1880 Residence Year: 1939 Address: 8 Clarks Cottage <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Residence Place: Wandsworth, London, England Occupation: General Labourer Line Number: 17 Schedule Number: 88 Sub Schedule Number: 1 Enumeration District: AXCN Borough: Wandsworth Inferred Spouse: Louisa Pattler Inferred Children: Violet Pattler Household Members Age Willm S Pattler 59 Louisa Pattler 62 - 9 Dec 1877 Violet Pattler 19 - 11 May 1920
PETTLEY, VIOLET mmn HERBERT GRO Reference: 1920 J Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 1295
William James's second marriage:
Marriages Dec 1923 (>99%) Pepper Louisa Pettley Wandsworth 1d 1225 Pettley William J Pepper Wandsworth 1d 1225
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malyon
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11 Apr 2021 19:50 |
death for william james
Deaths Dec 1944 (>99%) Pettley William J 65 Wandsworth 1d 260
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ArgyllGran
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11 Apr 2021 19:50 |
Different spelling on Ancestry's transcription:
William James Pettey in the 1911 England Census Name: William James Pettey Age in 1911: 13 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898 Relation to Head: Son Gender: Male Birth Place: Penge Civil Parish: Penge Country: England Street Address: 120 St Hugh's Road, Anerley Registration District Number: 39 Sub-registration District: Penge ED, institution, or vessel: 03 Piece: 3407 Household Members: Name Age William Pettey 33 - coal porter Sarah Ann Pettey 33 William James Pettey 13
Arthur Alfred:
Arthur Petley in the London, England, School Admissions and Discharges, 1912-1918 Name: Arthur Petley Gender: Male Admission Age: 7 Birth Date: 27 Feb 1909 Admission Date: 1 Nov 1916 Admission Place: London, England School: Mitcham Lane School School Address: Mitcham Lane, Streatham Father: William Petley , coalman <<<<<<<<<<<<
Address: 8 Clarks Cottages. <<<<<<<<<<<<
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alviegal
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11 Apr 2021 19:45 |
England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
First name(s) Alexander F Last name Pettley Gender Male Birth year 1911 Age 0 Death quarter 1 Death year 1911 District Croydon County Surrey Volume 2A Page 214
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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11 Apr 2021 19:45 |
Had to find it on FMP. It’s not on ancestry
So William filled it in and maybe he thought he has only to list adult children
1911 Census For England & Wales 120 St Hugh's Road, Penge, Surrey & Kent, England
William J Pettly Head Married Male 33 1878 Coal Porter Penge Sarah Ann Pettly Wife Married Female 33 1878 - Penge William James Pettly Son - Male 13 1898 - Penge
Married 13 years 9 children born 7 still living
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ArgyllGran
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11 Apr 2021 19:36 |
Alice??
Alice Pettley in the London, England, School Admissions and Discharges, 1912-1918 Name: Alice Pettley Gender: Female Admission Age: 12 Birth Date: 7 Mar 1903 Admission Date: 27 Sep 1915 Admission Place: London, England School: Telferscot Road School School Address: Emmanuel Road Father: William Pettley
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greyghost
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11 Apr 2021 19:34 |
Some of those births posted by Shirley have mmn Sims
no need to wonder what year birth registered - use either freebmd as Shirley has or https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro so shows mmn pre 1912. Need to register but free to use
Only one not finding is William - perhaps born before marriage ?
EDIT - Yes - reg'd as Herbert with no mmn
HERBERT, WILLIAM PETLEY - GRO Reference: 1898 M Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 250
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: PETTLEY, HENRY GEORGE HERBERT GRO Reference: 1898 D Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 297
PETTLEY, ROSE HERBERT GRO Reference: 1900 J Quarter in BROMLEY Volume 02A Page 487
PETTLEY, ERNEST JOHN HERBERT GRO Reference: 1901 D Quarter in BROMLEY Volume 02A Page 489PETTLEY,
ALICE HERBERT GRO Reference: 1903 J Quarter in BROMLEY Volume 02A Page 521
PETTLEY, WALTER HERBERT GRO Reference: 1905 J Quarter in BROMLEY Volume 02A Page 547
PETTLEY, ANNIE HERBERT GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 304
PETTLEY, ARTHUR ALFRED HERBERT GRO Reference: 1909 M Quarter in BROMLEY Volume 02A Page 554 PETTLEY, ALEXANDER FRANK HERBERT GRO Reference: 1910 S Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 352
The John Pettley death posted by Malyon was one of the mmn Sims births
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greyghost
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11 Apr 2021 19:23 |
In case with grandparents and mistakenly under their surname
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: PETTLEY, ERNEST JOHN HERBERT GRO Reference: 1901 D Quarter in BROMLEY Volume 02A Page 489
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page Marriages Mar 1898 (>99%) Herbert Sarah Ann Croydon 2a 345 <<<<<<< Pettley William Croydon 2a 345 <<<<<<<< Smith Louise Croydon 2a 345 Wood John Croydon 2a 345
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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11 Apr 2021 19:23 |
8 listed on freebmd
Births Jun 1900 (>99%) PETTLEY Rose Bromley 2a 487
Births Jun 1901 (>99%) Pettley Arthur Alfred Bromley 2a 484
Births Dec 1901 (>99%) Pettley Ernest John Bromley 2a 489
Births Mar 1903 (>99%) Pettley John Bromley 2a 506
Births Jun 1903 (>99%) PETTLEY Alice Bromley 2a 521 mmn Herbert
Births Jun 1904 (>99%) PETTLEY Rose Bromley 2a 522
Births Jun 1905 (>99%) Pettley Walter Bromley 2a 547
Births Mar 1909 (>99%) Pettley Arthur Alfred Bromley 2a 554
PETTLEY, HENRY GEORGE HERBERT GRO Reference: 1898 D Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 297
Births Mar 1898 Herbert William Petley Croydon 2a 250
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malyon
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11 Apr 2021 18:45 |
Deaths Jun 1900 (>99%) PETTLEY Rose 0 Bromley 2a 294
Deaths Sep 1903 (>99%) Pettley John 0 Bromley 2a 250
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Maddie
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11 Apr 2021 18:34 |
for ref
1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
131, Crampton Road, Beckenham, Bromley, Kent, England
Household Members Members that resided in the household at the time of the census. First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place William James Pettley Head Married Male 21 1880 Labourer (General) Penge, Surrey, England Sarah Pettley Wife Married Female 22 1879 - Penge, Surrey, England William Pettley Son Single Male 3 1898 - Penge, Surrey, England Henry Pettley Son Single Male 2 1899 - Penge, Surrey, England
1911 says 9 children born 2 died married 13 yrs
cant see the other children in 1911
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Maralyn
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11 Apr 2021 17:45 |
I have found my great grandparents in the 1911 Census (spelt Pettly) along with their eldest son William (c1898) but there is no mention of their other children: Henry aka Harry, George (c1899); Ernest John (b1901) - my granddad; Alice (c1903); Ann (Nancy) (c1907); Arthur Alfred (c1909);
Why would they have not recorded their very young children in the Census. I have looked for the children separately but cannot find them. Any ideas where they could have been?
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