Genealogy Chat

See Below.

We moan, we scream and shout, and so we should it is frustrating and mind boggling at times, but we should thank out lucky stars we are not researching a Bulgarian family tree (apologies if you are!!) I tutor a Bulgarian girl, she came this evening and asked what I was doing when she arrived, I explained about the tree etc. She laughed and told me what it would mean in Bulgaria. Here it is. Her fathers surname is Petrov, which was his fathers first name. Her mothers surname is Petrova, which as she is female is the feminine. My little friend who is their daughter takes the first name of her maternal grandfather as she is female, which was Simeon as her surname, but as she is a girl it changes to Simeonova. I will never moan about tracing relatives every again…….well not until tomorrow anyway!!

You are quite right, Fuzzy, I can't work this out at all. Her father took his father's first name as his surname. So why did she and her brother take their grandfather's first name as their surname - why not their father's first name? And presumably the grandfather whose first name they took is their maternal grandfather since we know their paternal grandfather was called Petrov? No, can't follow the logic there. At first I thought, great, find the family on a census and you know the names of the grandparents - but maybe not. I'm having enough trouble with the english and the scots anyway! Back to the gin, I think. Tina

Hi Tina, I know it is mad eh?!! i had to write it all down before she left as I would never have remembered it! It is a tradition apparently, she said the school gets muddled all the time and sends letters home to mr and mrs simeonova!! when I first started helping her, her mother wrote me a letter and signed it Lubya Petrova, I just assumed she must have re married!! So mad that her father is Petrov, so even the married couple have different surnames!! have a slice and some ice with that gin xx

And to think I'm moaning about the Robertsons marrying the Robertsons and Elders marrying Elders then they go and marry each other and then start all over again phw! Thank goodness I'm Scottish - nae problems at aw Norah

LOL Nolls!!! I know what you mean, I have murrays marrying coopers for two generations and coopers marrying coopers for two, but i am never moaning again....x

The ending doesn't really make it a different surname - it's just that our language doesn't have masculines and feminines like most others, so we're less used to that idea. Mind you, cherry-picking which ancestor's name you'll use makes for genealogy hurdles! I believe that the Shetlands still use Patronyms (or did until very recently) - and that Iceland or Finland (or both) often use Matronyms. If you think -ov and -ova make a surname look different, how about -son and -dottir! Christine

Hi christine, should make us grateful that we not researching a tree in Iceland or Finland!! LOL xx

Yes tina, it is the maternal grandfathers name as she is the first born and a girl, very complicated!! will change the message to make that clear!

But Finland is a doddle! There, until very recently, the names of all females were recorded on a scroll which belonged to the mother and some of these scrolls date back to the early 1500s. The names of the fathers' of the children are not recorded,LOL. OC

Christine and OC, when we have Finland as an example we really must not complain......but we will!! xx

You don't have to go overseas to find problems. Has anyone tried following the Welsh naming system? Rees Jones has a son Son is called Evan Rees or Rice or Bryce (Ab means 'son of') or Price (Ap also means 'son of ') as he takes father's first name as his surname. Evan then has a son called Harry. He is Harry Evan or Evans or Bevan or Bevans. Harry has a son called William. He is William Harry or Harris or Parry or Barry.

Hope to avoid welsh rellies!! thanks for that helen xx

Does this only happen in Bulgaria? Or does this also happen in other Slovak countries? I'm curious.

Not just Bulgaria - Poland for one has a similar variation in name endings for males and females.

Incidentally, Icelandic genealogy is a doddle:
http://www.icelandreview.com/stuff/views/2007/02/08/iceland-family-tree

From this site:

Only in Iceland has the centuries-old Scandinavian pattern of naming continued down to the present. A person’s given name is his or her primary name. The telephone directory lists individuals by their Christian name such as Jon.

Icelanders have also retained the old system of patronymics. Thus by adding son or dottir to the possessive of a person’s father’s name, the son of Sigurd becomes Jon Sigurdsson and his son Sveinn becomes Sveinn Jonsson and his daughter Helga, Helga Jonsdottir. And so on. Women also don’t change their names when they marry.

In 1855, there were 108 different family names in Iceland. By 1910, the number had increased to 297. By 1925, additional legislation prohibited the adoption of family names altogether, although it allowed those who already had them to keep them. The law also made the adoption of an Icelandic family name and patronymic a pre-requisite for obtaining Icelandic citizenship. As time goes on, fewer individuals will have family names as more and more individuals drop them in favor of the traditional naming system.