Genealogy Chat

Hi everyone, can anyone advise me as to whether suicides are actually recorded as suicides on the death cert or do they give the medical reason for death? Thanking you in advance. Suzanne

If the cause of death sounds suspicious, ''asphixiation'' for instance, and there is some mention of the person being of unsound mind or temporarily insane, then there's a good chance this is suicide as we would term it today. Though if the person was declared mentally unsound at the time the event took place, then technically this is not really suicide at all (as you need to be sane to commit suicide) but it';s a very grey area. Probably in our eyes, looking from today's perspective, many cases would be straightforward suicide, but remember it was a crime then, so was perceived differently. Merry

I have a relative who shot himself, his death is recorded as 'Suicide by shooting in the head in whatever state of mnid. No evidence of intoxication'. This was in 1871. That was the coroner's verdict, after the inquest.

I have three death certificates of rellies who committed suicide. 1895 'Suicide by swallowing a large quantity of cyanide of potassium whilst in a state of temporary insanity'. 1883 'Hanging suicidal'. 1863 'Suicide by shooting, mentally deranged'. So, yes, I would say that the fact of suicide would be registered on the certificate.

I have a death in 1883 recorded as: 'From a wound inflicted on his neck by himself whilst in an unsound state of mind' Jill

My grandmothers death certificate states that she died of the following 'pneumonia caused by incised wound to throat (she killed herself)' so even though she had cut her throat several days before dying and contracted pneumonia as a result it still said this was a self inflicted death

GGF's inquest death cert says 'suicide whilst of unsound mind' - it also gives aphyxiation as cause. Blimey, weve all got a lot of dodgey ancestors, havent we. I suppose when you think about it, if they were in dire straits, there wasnt a packet of prozac or a counsellor or come to that any financial aid for them. Very sad. Ted kindly looked up the newspaper report on GGF's suicide for me. Did make me feel so sad. The detail of the day before it happened and how it happened and the son finding him - makes it all so real.

The death certificate of a close relative in 1991 where there was no doubt - 'He took his own life'. Kathy

Hi Suzanne Have just had a death cert for a great uncle who according to family stories - 'shot himself on the steps of the church' - the cause of death on the cert is: 1(a) Haemorrhage and shock (b) Gunshot wound of chest. Shooting himself with a Luger automatic. Killed himself whilst the balance of his mind was disturbed. The death has also been notified by the Coroner after inquest rather than a family member. hope this helps Looby

I have one from 1871 shown in Latin 'Felo de se, under aberation of mind', it doesn't say how she did it though. Lesley

Thank you all......tragic, tragic. XX Suzanne

I've got one from 1884, my great x 3 grandfather John Mealing, stating that 'Committed suicide by cutting his throat with a razor - lived 20 days'. So sad to think of him, aged 79, widowed, with his eldest son incarcerated in Broadmoor after killing his fiancee in a fit of insanity, his eldest daughter dead after bleeding to death in childbirth. He must have been in such a state to contemplate killing himself, and then to live for 20 days afterwards, dying in the workhouse. nell

I've found reading this link very interesting. Can anyone tell me what it is possibvle to find out regarding a death, when we are talking about a close relatives' suicide within the last 25 years or so. I have ordered what I believe is my Grandads' Death Certificate, but can I request Inquest information and the Coroners report? If I can, where would I need to ask /go bearing in mind the death was in Wales where as I'm not and I don't drive. Can some one advise me. I'm really struggling to find this out. Thanks rebecca

Thanks to all writing here--but none refer to recent deaths-i.e 1990's--21st century. Highly like that the PC brigade have banned such reality. Philip.

Not with your comment Arfermo

A death cert will record the cause of death and the coroner may well be the informant after an inquest

Do you have a specific instance that invokes that comment

Original post (to which Arfermo has added today) is 11 years old

Not necessarily on the initial d.cert.

The story
Some guy sent off for a build your own geiger counter kit, and was wandering around with the assembled counter and noticed high readings on the river banks so the river board hired my brother's oceanographic survey company to check out river flow.
It was a bit of a rush job and my bro only had 1 guy available for a 3 man job, so he hired my daur who was visiting on her gap year, and he was the 3rd guy. He arranged for a boat hire and off they went. The two guys were in the boat throwing floating recorders in the river and taking readings, with my daur on a walkie-talkie driving along the river bank keeping an eye out for where the things were floating to. She said it was very scarey driving down narrow lanes with stone walls - she'd had a liecence for 3 y, but it was her first time driving on the wrong side of the road - she expressed surprise that cars in the UK managed to retain their wing mirrors if they drove on roads were like this.
Anyway, they were tying up one night and the police came by. Some woman had jumped off a bridge, and they asked them to keep an eye out for a body. My daur leaned over the side of the boat and called out "like this one". She told me this on her evening phone call - I said "that must have been a wory for you". "Oh no, dad, she was quite dead".
My bro went the next morning to fill out the d.cert - he was an eligible informant as the master of the vessel that discovered the body. The police might know who the body was and when they jumped off the bridge, but all my bro was able to report the discovery of an unnamed female body on such and such a date, the result of a death by drowning.

My bro wasn't best pleased - it took him all morning - and another day's wages!!!

There would have been an inquest, and the initial d.cert amended - whether by a coroner or the procurator fiscal, I'm not sure as I don't know which country the death was reported in.

Just for further discussion:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=402795.0

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28689083

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k6z/

1980 - reads "Did kill himself whilst the balance of his mind was disturbed"

Cause of death was given as:-

1a Asphyxia due to
1b Hanging
2 Recent coronary artery thrombosis

If there is an inquest, the coroner will be the informant.

When my mil died last year, although it was from natural causes, because she was in a nursing home and unable to make decisions for herself, the coroner had to be advised and he was the only one allowed to register the death.