Genealogy Chat

Can anyone offer any help please. Im trying to find the marriage cert for my Great Grandparents. ON 1861 Census there are two lodgers living in the same house in Walsall Staffs:- Richard Hickin and Mary Ann Hinchley. My Great Grandmother was born Nov 1861, Walsall. Her name Sarah Insley, (This is confirmed as her maiden name on her childs birth cert Oct 1880) Fathers name Richard Hickin, mothers name Mary Ann Insley. Are these the same people ? My Gr Gr Grand parents, but with Mary Ann Surname spelt different? Now for poss marriages of my Great Grand parents:- 1) Poss marriage mar quarter 1880 Dudley Staffs. Thomas Hawkins and Sarah Hincley (Found on free BDM) 2) Thomas Hawkins and Sarah Hindley(found Staff BDM) 1880, ST Marys Tipton Are these above marriages one of the same ? What i am trying to find out is is all this info belonging to the same Sarah and has her surname been transcribed wrong. If so how can i find out if it is A) Insley B) Hinchley C) Hincley D) Hindley I been trying to sort this one out for months and the more i look the more poss simalar name matchs i find. PLEASE HELP. Avery confused Shaz :-( UPDATE The poss marriage i had found for my GR Grandparents is not a match, Groom details are correct but brides Age is close but not right and also father of the bride name is wrong, (Not got the cert, info recieved today on phone) Any fresh ideas of what i can now do ? REALLY FED UP :-(

Tipton was a subdistrict of Dudley district, so I expect the marriages are the same. Hindley looks like a transcription error. The other forms can all be evolved variants of Hinchcliffe, along with Inchley, Hinsliff and many others. Different variants of the same original name tended to be regarded as interchangeable, and sometimes people would alternate on purpose. Not possible to say that any one form was correct. This isn't to say Sarah was descended from Hinchcliffes. As names moved around the country they became confused with other names from other areas, such as say Hensley or Hinckley. Only way to find the history of the surname of any particular line is to trace it back. If Sarah had brothers who had sons, it's likely they would have fixed on a spelling for this branch in the next generation. But they wouldn't have traced the family history, so the form they settled on wouldn't necessarily be the original form

Going back to the 1861 , who are they lodging with? anything that gives any clues? Are either of them ever with parents on any census? jess

Sharon - do the occupations for Richard on the census and Sarah's birth certificate match? That would at least help to confirm whether you have the right Richard. Kate.

I know it's not impossible for them to have had their first child in 1861 and not married until 1880, but wondered if you have trawled 1837 for a better marriage 'fit' in the early 1860's (poorly covered on FreeBMD) Sarah

Thankyou Robin, Jess,Kate and Sarah, for your replys/ideas. Robin, as yet I have no info on any siblings of these three, so unable to look down that avenue. Jess, the head was John William, i can see no connection there, or any other members of the household. I have not got any census futher back then 1861 so have nothing regarding their parents/siblings. And can not find as a family or seperate for sure either Richard Hickin Or Mary Ann Hinchley( or any other poss spelling to this surname) on any of the following 4 census. As for Sarah I cannot find her in 1871 but have her with her husband Thomas Hawkins and son George Henry (who is 6 months old) on 1881 census. Kate, i never thought to check the census with the birth cert, on census it states Miner and on Birth Cert it is Collier so that is a hopeful sign as a match. Sarah, Richard and Mary Ann i believe had Sarah out of wedlock as her birth cert is in her mothers surname, in 1861. The marriage i mentioned was for Sarah, as it all seems to fit husbands name, date and place its just her surname that once again has me confused. I will look on1837 for the marriage in 1880 and see if i can only find one match and not more. Once again thankyou all for your ideas and time. If you can think of anything else, i would be greatful, will let you know how i get on. Shaz

This looks like the lodger from 1861 : Hickin, Richard Record Type: Deaths Age at death: 64 Quarter: March Year: 1898 District: Tamworth County: Derbyshire Staffordshire Warwickshire Volume: 6b Page: 292

Hi Jim thanks for that info, if i cant find anything else i will order the cert and see what info is on it, then hopfully make a connection. Shaz

shaz, you sound very confused with it all,,contact me, and I will explain where your confused, sarah insley was born out of wedlock, and her surname was spelt wrong, contact me,, ian,

Ian, hopefully in the 9 years that has intervened since Shaz posted this she will have sorted out her confusion.

However, if you want to contact her to see if she still needs help then click on her board name and send a direct message as it's unlikely she's checking back for replies after all this time. :-)

Ian was given the same advice two years ago.............and again today........on

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/863903